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How to Catch a Cheater

nerdlife.net

71–80 of 99 posts

Re: How to Catch a Cheater

#71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the new material built on the old, shouldn't the old material be a solid lock?

Only then, and most courses are not straight progressions. In high school and particularly AP, those courses are blatant cycles of 1) cram, 2) test, and 3) forget all but the core of what that section was about. (If you want to say, "You should learn it all for the final" keep in mind nobody does , nor are final exams built around remembering everything from the whole course.)

Good AP courses are completely the opposite, and I had several in high school. We had regular reviews to make sure we refreshed and retained the material until the end of the year.

The great thing about AP classes was that the teachers could really teach, and they could justify themselves by pointing to the AP test if anyone complained about the rigor of the work. The students were game, too, at least the ones who didn't drop the classes. Everybody sincerely tried to understand what they were doing instead of just trying to make the right pencil marks on the test paper, since understanding was the most efficient way to retain something for months at a time. The test looming at the end of the year rendered cramming pointless -- you could cram for one test, but you would have to eventually learn the material anyway in order to take the AP exam, so cramming for a test actually felt like the failure that it was.

Re: How to Catch a Cheater

#72
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder how many perfectly honest students did worse on the impromptu re-take two weeks later, with entirely new material on their minds.

Agreed it seems that it is always the honest students who gets the short end of the stick. Thats a good thing though - it prepares the students for the real world.

The dishonest kids got it much, much worse, though. Personally, as one of the ones who didn't cheat, that's what I cared about.

Re: How to Catch a Cheater

#73
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed it seems that it is always the honest students who gets the short end of the stick. Thats a good thing though - it prepares the students for the real world.

How is doing this preparing the students for the real world (I'm being serious and not condescending or anything)? I don't see the real world being particularly more difficult than normal high school. Example - didn't file or pay taxes on time? No problemo - just take a penalty and finish up your work late.

Because it causes them to loose (hopefully) any idea that they get anything out of being honest, except shafted.

Re: How to Catch a Cheater

#74
post #67
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can't upvote this enough. 1) The early homeworks in this class were basically puzzles, where if you’ve seen the style of problem before you more or less knew the answer. The goal was to expose us to these types of problems and teach us how to think them through properly. 2) The class was taught by Luis just as he was beginning to hit mainstream media. The guy has a unique approach to problems that was absolutely insp…

IMO, the most economically valuable lesson an above average student learns at a top collage is how to cheat effectively. Four years is no where near enough time to provide a good education, but plenty for a gentle wake-up call to how the world actually works. Edit: Now here is someone that was actually paying attention: I believe it was called Finkleberg’s 101 game, at least when I took the class. Maybe he pulled the…

Would you think that one of the most economically valuable things universities do is kicking out cheats? Because they are the ones who will (most likely) back-stab their way to a CEO position, then run down the company while still paying themselves out-sized bonuses.

Re: How to Catch a Cheater

#75
General cheating story:

My wife is a professor (ya that again:>). As an accounting professor they do a lot of their homework/projects in excel. Excel, of course, saves the information of the document creator in it's meta-data which is trivial to look-up. She'll routinely get 5 or 6 of the exact same file (with the same origination data) for the same project. Overall, she'll catch 10%-20% of her class cheating in a given semester without even really trying.

Re: How to Catch a Cheater

#76
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect you're actually in the majority. I bet that, rather, the minority position is that the instructor should create whatever conditions they want to so that they can exercise the students as they see fit - and that the students should extend enough respect to consider why those conditions are being created. This is my view. Replace the teacher with a coach in a weightlifting class. One day he wants you to lift…

Many math teachers ban calculators on math tests. I'm pretty sure this has majority support, not minority. Google does simple math, so that's basically an equivalent issue. IMO it's dumb -- in real life you have access to Google. But I mostly wanted to say I think there's clearly majority support for artificial grading conditions, since the no-calculators thing is so popular.

Calculator bans aren't nearly as common now as they were ten or fifteen years ago. Pretty much all the major exams allow them, and questions are often written with this in mind.

Re: How to Catch a Cheater

#77
post #12
post #4

> We were explicitly told that searching online for answers to homeworks was forbidden. I might be in the minority but I am of the opinion that if you are grading students on something that can be easily obtained through a google search you probably shouldn't be grading them on that.

I suspect you're actually in the majority. I bet that, rather, the minority position is that the instructor should create whatever conditions they want to so that they can exercise the students as they see fit - and that the students should extend enough respect to consider why those conditions are being created. This is my view. Replace the teacher with a coach in a weightlifting class. One day he wants you to lift…

I had a CS professor who expressly prohibited the use of graphical debuggers for much the same reason.

Re: How to Catch a Cheater

#78
post #69
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed it seems that it is always the honest students who gets the short end of the stick. Thats a good thing though - it prepares the students for the real world.

Prepares them for a life time of being good little DRM'd content consumers?

Oh yes!

Re: How to Catch a Cheater

#79

This is a neat little sting, but looked at honestly, it's entrapment. "Commonly referred to as The Glorblar Problem" That phrasing is a cue that the student is expected to either look something up or to refer back to notes or memory of lectures or discussion of the Glorblar Problem in class. Why else mention it, if it were an honest homework problem? We know they didn't hear about the Glorblar Problem in class - it d…

Looks like you guys didn't read the whole story. The professor specifically asked the class not to search online. The goal of the homework was to get the students to teach them to think through the puzzle.

Re: How to Catch a Cheater

#80
post #2

run a proxy server company? this would be perfect material for a viral campaign.

I was actually wondering how he would get the access records for the school's PCs? It would seem that it would be a big bluff as most Sys Admins would give such records to a prof.

At least at the two schools I'm fairly familiar with, when investigating a cheating allegation those are routinely handed over.
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