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PureOS is convergent

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Re: PureOS is convergent

#31

Post by joekrill »

masklinn wrote: post #21
joekrill wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is nice, but what problem does it solve? It solves a _development_ problem, in that it reduces the amount of work needed to allow an application to reach a larger number of devices. Basically the same reason for things like React Native and PWAs. > Ubuntu tried this - how'd that go? So because someone else failed at solving a particular problem in a particular way previously, we should simply give up on it?

> It solves a _development_ problem, in that it reduces the amount of work needed to allow an application to reach a larger number of devices. Sounds like a repeat of the Java strategy: you can run garbage nobody wants anywhere nobody wants to run it. > So because someone else failed at solving a particular problem in a particular way previously Microsoft also attempted it, and also failed quite miserably. > we shoul…

Microsoft failed in a completely different way: their entire mobile platform failed. I'm not sure it had anything to with UWP specifically, and as far as we know that had little to do with it. But regardless of the reason, I still don't think that should prevent others from trying to solve the problem in different ways.

Re: PureOS is convergent

#32

Post by meruru »

masklinn wrote: post #19
meruru wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It solves bug #1 This bug is widely evident in the PC industry. Steps to repeat: 1. Visit a local PC store. 2. Attempt to buy a machine without any proprietary software. What happens: Almost always, a majority of PCs for sale have Microsoft Windows pre-installed. In the rare cases that they come with a GNU/Linux operating system or no operating system at all, the drivers and BIOS may be proprietary. https://bugs.laun…

> It solves bug #1 It doesn't do so anymore than ubuntu already does.

It does so more directly by being a PC without Microsoft Windows pre-installed or proprietary BIOS.

Almost always, a majority of PCs for sale have Microsoft Windows pre-installed. In the rare cases that they come with a GNU/Linux operating system or no operating system at all, the drivers and BIOS may be proprietary.

Ubuntu helped enable Purism to exist and they are great for that too.

Re: PureOS is convergent

#33

Post by fwip »

AdmiralAsshat wrote: post #20

My primary concern with this is that different applications are inherently optimized for the platform on which they were originally designed. There are some applications that have a very dense UI because there's simply alot of functionality that the program handles (think of a video editor, an IDE, etc). Trying to slim down those applications to make them reactive so that they will scale onto a phone or tablet just s…

>"Why in god's name would I want to run vim on my phone?"

To be fair, I've used vim on my phone over SSH and it was actually a pretty good experience. Editing is a bit more deliberate of an affair than with a hardware keyboard, but still easier than trying to visually select text on the touchscreen, and no complex chorded keybindings to try to enter.

Re: PureOS is convergent

#35

Post by joekrill »

chongli wrote: post #30
joekrill wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is nice, but what problem does it solve? It solves a _development_ problem, in that it reduces the amount of work needed to allow an application to reach a larger number of devices. Basically the same reason for things like React Native and PWAs. > Ubuntu tried this - how'd that go? So because someone else failed at solving a particular problem in a particular way previously, we should simply give up on it?

It solves a _development_ problem I think the GP meant to ask "what problem does this solve for end users? " It's hard to market to consumers if your primary differentiator is only useful to developers.

When I was typing that comment, I was actually going to elaborate on this point, but decided not to for brevity.

The reality is, if a developer can generate greater reach, it gives more options to the consumer. And so in that regard it does solve a problem for the end user - they have more software options to choose from. Perhaps there is more competition, which I think we can all probably agree is good for users.

Re: PureOS is convergent

#36

Post by toast0 »

joekrill wrote: post #16
dcdevito wrote: post #5

This is nice, but what problem does it solve? Mobile and Desktop operating systems solve different issues on their own. Ubuntu tried this - how'd that go? Second issue is: how do I use it? How can I install it on MY devices? I'm all for privacy and I want to is it, just seems like a dream and it will never come to fruition

> This is nice, but what problem does it solve? It solves a _development_ problem, in that it reduces the amount of work needed to allow an application to reach a larger number of devices. Basically the same reason for things like React Native and PWAs. > Ubuntu tried this - how'd that go? So because someone else failed at solving a particular problem in a particular way previously, we should simply give up on it?

> It solves a _development_ problem, in that it reduces the amount of work needed to allow an application to reach a larger number of devices.

That's great for developers, but how does that help users? As a user, I would rather use something built specifically for the device (and os) I'm using, I've used enough things that were supposed to work everywhere that it's a major turn off at this point.

If developers want to share code cross platform, really, the way to do it is write a shared core logic (probably in C, because that is available everywhere), and then write the UI from scratch everywhere, conforming to the platform guidelines (unless it's a media player). It's more work than hoping a write once run eveywhere will work well, but it delivers a much better result.

Re: PureOS is convergent

#37

Post by toast0 »

joekrill wrote: post #31
masklinn wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It solves a _development_ problem, in that it reduces the amount of work needed to allow an application to reach a larger number of devices. Sounds like a repeat of the Java strategy: you can run garbage nobody wants anywhere nobody wants to run it. > So because someone else failed at solving a particular problem in a particular way previously Microsoft also attempted it, and also failed quite miserably. > we shoul…

Microsoft failed in a completely different way: their entire mobile platform failed. I'm not sure it had anything to with UWP specifically, and as far as we know that had little to do with it. But regardless of the reason, I still don't think that should prevent others from trying to solve the problem in different ways.

I think the failure of Windows Mobile 10 could be attributed to UWP in that Microsoft applied it internally, there was no separate Mobile team like with the previous releases of Windows Phone, and as a result, the released OS did not run well on mobile devices until about a year after release. That's what experience has taught me to expect from write once, run everywhere.

Re: PureOS is convergent

#38

Post by tombert »

AdmiralAsshat wrote: post #20

My primary concern with this is that different applications are inherently optimized for the platform on which they were originally designed. There are some applications that have a very dense UI because there's simply alot of functionality that the program handles (think of a video editor, an IDE, etc). Trying to slim down those applications to make them reactive so that they will scale onto a phone or tablet just s…

I have the GPD Win that I bought a couple years ago, which is more or a less a Nintendo-DS-Sized computer running "real" Windows, and I love it. I can do programming on the train, even while standing up, as well as use all the tooling that I like, including Vim actually. The only limitation for me has honestly been Windows, since I'm more of a Unixey guy.

Something that has always bothered me is that smartphones are basically supercomputers nowadays, at least compared to what we had in the 90's, but I feel incredibly limited in what I can actually do with my iPhone. I can't easily code stuff for the iPhone in Haskell, I can't open up multiple "tabs" of videos on the YouTube app, and even a lot of the apps that do get ported over end up having incredibly limited "mobile optimized" versions.

I would absolutely love a phone that could let me run the "real" versions of apps when I need to. Ubuntu Touch was trying this, and I honestly don't think I'm unique in this desire.

Re: PureOS is convergent

#39

Post by _bxg1 »

_bxg1 wrote: post #29

I've become unenthused about this software "dream". Having spent years designing and building UIs on the web, what I've learned is that: 1) Convergence works great for "casual" apps - messaging, stores, content feeds, etc.; anything where the amount of stuff you need to see on screen at once doesn't need to be especially large. But the web already does a great job of making this type of application both responsive an…

The key factor, I believe, is how much needs to be shown onscreen at the same time. Your newsfeed can be compressed to a smaller screen because you can simply show less of it, without sacrificing the core goal of the view. Whereas, consider a desktop app with multiple panes that show different information about the same subject. The default way to condense this would be to arrange the panes into a single vertical column that you could scroll up and down. But if you need to see them all at once, this adaptation is useless. At some point there are only so many physical inches of screen space.

Re: PureOS is convergent

#40

Post by aeroevan »

presscast wrote: post #34

What's the state of running linux natively on Mac these days?

It used to be much better (I run linux on my 2013 MBP, and used to run it on my 12" powerbook back in the day), but I think there's been some progress on the newer MBPs: https://github.com/Dunedan/mbp-2016-linux
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