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Open-Sourcing Windows Calculator

blogs.windows.com

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Re: Open-Sourcing Windows Calculator

#141

Post by kristianp »

Someone1234 wrote: post #24

I might try to commit to this. I've always found the "App" version of Calculator lacking compare to its Win32 predecessor. In particular History. On the old Calculator you could double-click the history and edit the equation, and get a new result, no go on the App. Plus the Programmer UI, while being more powerful is actually harder to use since the information is now split between two screens rather than one. Oh and…

I don't like the fact that the new calculator always seems to be the wrong size, when using different DPI monitors. I don't need calc to take up 90% of the screen and I don't want to have to resize it. There's no real need for that. Agreed on the history missing functionality, that has annoyed me too.

Re: Open-Sourcing Windows Calculator

#142

Post by gruez »

mwfunk wrote: post #106
ktjfi wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This calculator is not written using Win32. (Why the downvotes?)

I didn't downvote you, but it comes across like you were trying to nitpick someone by pointing out a detail that isn't relevant to what they were saying.

In this case I think it's valid because the old calculator from windows 8 and below (before the app version) is sometimes called win32calc.

Re: Open-Sourcing Windows Calculator

#143

Post by gruez »

ggambetta wrote: post #14

While I applaud this, and I'm generally positive about Microsoft's new stance regarding open source, I wonder whether they ever have, or ever will, apologise for having made remarks like "Linux is communism". They caused a lot of damage. It feels a bit disingenuous to just pretend now that nothing happened.

>having made remarks like "Linux is communism".

what?

Re: Open-Sourcing Windows Calculator

#144

Post by yjftsjthsd-h »

tombert wrote: post #84
temac wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IIRC Notepad source code is in a Windows SDK. Probably an old one, but it only started to be actively maintained quite recently (and even then: only very lightly), so the source code you can get will likely cover most of its lifespan for now. I'm not sure the source of notepad is that much interesting, though. I mean, yeah, nice to have out of curiosity, maybe, but I'm not sure I would get anything from looking at it…

I have this kind of masochistic fantasy of rewriting Notepad directly in a modern language. No new features, an identical port in Scheme or something.

I feel like that would be trivial with a clean room reimplementation. There's just not that much functionality to clone.

Re: Open-Sourcing Windows Calculator

#145

Post by kristianp »

favorited wrote: post #41
nathell wrote: post #5

Whoa, it appears to be written in C++/CLI. I wonder how much Windows code also is, and how it impacts maintainability.

I was trying to figure out if it was C++/CLI or C++/CX (I don't do enough Windows dev to know at a glance...). I was hoping it was C++/WinRT – I'm interested in seeing the new language projection in action.

Apparently C++/WinRt was only introduced in Windows 1803 [1], a few years after original Win 10. Interesting to learn that it was originally developed by an independent developer, who was then brought into Microsoft to continue work on it. C++/WinRt uses standard c++.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C%2B%2B/WinRT

Re: Open-Sourcing Windows Calculator

#147

Post by reaperducer »

m1el wrote: post #90
Someone1234 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's some pretty boring information overall. One which might be cause for concern is LogInvalidInputPasted() specifically because pastedExpression is included in the Telemetry Event. I also have questions on LogConversionResult(). Why is that recording NetworkAccessBehavior or the raw conversion values? Wouldn't knowing the FromUnit/ToUnit be enough to know how much something is being used?

Conversion between currencies requires access to the API that provides conversion rates.

I presume that LogConversionResult() logs the result of a currency conversion that has already accessed Micrisoft's API. So why does Microsoft need to know the results of my calculations? The function in question isn't GetCurrencyRate().

Re: Open-Sourcing Windows Calculator

#148

Post by reaperducer »

dtrailin wrote: post #76
turrini wrote: post #7

https://github.com/Microsoft/calculator#data--telemetry "This project collects usage data and sends it to Microsoft to help improve our products and services. Read our privacy statement to learn more. Telemetry is disabled in development builds by default, and can be enabled with the SEND_TELEMETRY build flag." Even on a simple calculator.

Basically every Android and IOS app you use collects telemetry (which you usually cannot disable) for UX purposes but suddenly when Microsoft does it it's a Big Deal. I don't see the issue with refining UX using anonymous data if it improves the product for the end users. Every high quality commercial app does this.

Basically every Android and IOS app you use collects telemetry

So it's OK, then. Jimmy jumped off a bridge, so it's OK if Johnny does it, too. No harm done!

but suddenly when Microsoft does it it's a Big Deal

No, it's a big deal because Microsoft feels entitled to collect information about people using... wait for it... a calculator.

using anonymous data

It's not anonymous. We know it's going to at least get a timestamp and IP address.

I don't see the issue with refining UX

Neither do I. Do it by bringing people in and testing the program on them, the way it was done for decades before "telemetry" became one of those SV euphemisms.

Every high quality commercial app does this.

No. They don't.

Re: Open-Sourcing Windows Calculator

#149

Post by jessaustin »

DHowett wrote: post #132
russh wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But how can that be when "... the engineering lead owning conhost.exe: I can't find anything in our code that would trace user input, or data effectively derived from user input, to even a local event stream."

I mean, I suppose that the key sequences around copy/paste are technically user input. Those events get processed into telemetry as to whether they were done in processed or raw input mode, and whether Quick Edit was engaged at the time. Additional telemetry points include whether the "Find" dialog is being used (explicitly, whether "find next" has been clicked, and how long the search string is -- no other user-gene…

How about this one?

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19323560

Re: Open-Sourcing Windows Calculator

#150

Post by reaperducer »

badfrog wrote: post #38
turrini wrote: post #7

https://github.com/Microsoft/calculator#data--telemetry "This project collects usage data and sends it to Microsoft to help improve our products and services. Read our privacy statement to learn more. Telemetry is disabled in development builds by default, and can be enabled with the SEND_TELEMETRY build flag." Even on a simple calculator.

> Even on a simple calculator. Why not? If they're paying people to build this software, they presumably want to make it good. With this data, they can learn all kinds of things to help improve future versions: when/why is it crashing, what features are people using most/least, are there patterns of clicks that suggest people are mis-understanding or mis-clicking certain features, etc, etc. edit: Another one that's o…

If they're paying people to build this software, they presumably want to make it good.

I find it more likely that the real answer is they're trying to "maximize shareholder value." If Microsoft wanted to make good software, there are several thousand other things it could do other than collecting information on people using a calculator.

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