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How to Catch a Cheater

nerdlife.net

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Re: How to Catch a Cheater

#61

Post by Xk »

btilly wrote: post #48
Xk wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with you for the most part, but nearly all introductory courses must have content that is easily available online. Consider teaching students how to write a recursive method. What would their first assignment be? List length? "find length of list" Factorial? "factorial recursive" Fibonacci? "fibonacci recursive" GCD? "program gcd" There are only so many simple recursive procedures, and I guarantee nearly all…

It is trivial to create a simple recursive problem without saying anything that would be a Google-able search term. The problem may be solved, but the students won't know what to search for. For example have them write a program that solves the game of Nim, but don't tell them the name of the game they are solving. Instead call it "pick up pennies" or something like that. Now Google won't help.

Very true.

However, there will be someone in the class who knows that "pick up pennies" is just the game of Nim, and will google it. Renaming makes it harder so fewer people will be able to cheat, but it doesn't make it impossible. (That said, it wouldn't be all that hard for the professor to create his own game which is similar to Nim in some respects, but different in others -- I believe this would be the best solution -- but unfortunately most professors would not put the time in to do this.)

This problem multiplies tenfold when you try to do it with math. (Integrate _____ -> WolframAlpha. Prove ______ -> Google.)

Re: How to Catch a Cheater

#62

Post by rick888 »

Semiapies wrote: post #26

This is a neat little sting, but looked at honestly, it's entrapment. "Commonly referred to as The Glorblar Problem" That phrasing is a cue that the student is expected to either look something up or to refer back to notes or memory of lectures or discussion of the Glorblar Problem in class. Why else mention it, if it were an honest homework problem? We know they didn't hear about the Glorblar Problem in class - it d…

"So, the professor deliberately tempted people to look up something online, then amused himself by busting the people who did. Cute method, but it proves nothing other than "schmuck bait works"."

The way I see it, the people that are actually doing their homework wouldn't even be tempted by it..because they are actually doing their homework.

"Remember that this is homework, not a test. Yes, presumably the problem is doable without any reference material. The students don't necessarily know that, though. They do know that they've been prodded in that question to at least check their thinking or work against external information....which isn't available to them through the channels they've been permitted to use."

Checking your work against the correct answer and Googling the answer (and just writing it down) are two different things.

Re: How to Catch a Cheater

#63

Post by rick888 »

lazyant wrote: post #13

It seems this professor is more interested in entrapment and showing how smart he is rather than in his students learning (OK, maybe this was the lesson)

..or catching cheaters. The students that cheated obviously don't care about learning or education, so why should he?

Re: How to Catch a Cheater

#64

Post by Steuard »

Xk wrote: post #61
btilly wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is trivial to create a simple recursive problem without saying anything that would be a Google-able search term. The problem may be solved, but the students won't know what to search for. For example have them write a program that solves the game of Nim, but don't tell them the name of the game they are solving. Instead call it "pick up pennies" or something like that. Now Google won't help.

Very true. However, there will be someone in the class who knows that "pick up pennies" is just the game of Nim, and will google it. Renaming makes it harder so fewer people will be able to cheat, but it doesn't make it impossible. (That said, it wouldn't be all that hard for the professor to create his own game which is similar to Nim in some respects, but different in others -- I believe this would be the best solu…

There's a big gap between "not all that hard" and "something you have time to create from scratch for every problem on every exam in all of your classes every term".

In general, creating good, well-balanced problems isn't easy! And many of the "classic" examples are classic precisely because they incorporate just the right blend of concepts in an unusually simple package. That's not easy to duplicate, if it's possible at all. (I do my best to write exam problems that way, but it can be a tortuous process.)

Re: How to Catch a Cheater

#66

Post by zeraholladay »

Semiapies wrote: post #26

This is a neat little sting, but looked at honestly, it's entrapment. "Commonly referred to as The Glorblar Problem" That phrasing is a cue that the student is expected to either look something up or to refer back to notes or memory of lectures or discussion of the Glorblar Problem in class. Why else mention it, if it were an honest homework problem? We know they didn't hear about the Glorblar Problem in class - it d…

I don't know if it even qualifies as "schmuck bait." The Prof's actions are ethically objectionable (and personally disgusting to me) since he actively solicited unethical behavior from gullible students. Frankly, it's not a challenge to bring out the worst qualities in people, especially scared undergrads.

Re: How to Catch a Cheater

#67

Post by Retric »

bkrausz wrote: post #24
pohl wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect you're actually in the majority. I bet that, rather, the minority position is that the instructor should create whatever conditions they want to so that they can exercise the students as they see fit - and that the students should extend enough respect to consider why those conditions are being created. This is my view. Replace the teacher with a coach in a weightlifting class. One day he wants you to lift…

Can't upvote this enough. 1) The early homeworks in this class were basically puzzles, where if you’ve seen the style of problem before you more or less knew the answer. The goal was to expose us to these types of problems and teach us how to think them through properly. 2) The class was taught by Luis just as he was beginning to hit mainstream media. The guy has a unique approach to problems that was absolutely insp…

IMO, the most economically valuable lesson an above average student learns at a top collage is how to cheat effectively. Four years is no where near enough time to provide a good education, but plenty for a gentle wake-up call to how the world actually works.

Edit: Now here is someone that was actually paying attention: I believe it was called Finkleberg’s 101 game, at least when I took the class. Maybe he pulled the same trick with a different problem several times. I remember thinking “this is such a googleable problem” because of the peculiar name so I actually assumed that a google search for the name would be a honeypot trap. My assumption proved correct.

PS: There are plenty of great resources at a top institution to learn, but you can only explore a tiny fraction of them.

Re: How to Catch a Cheater

#68

Post by PostOnce »

If the point of college is to learn rather than to simply get a degree, then after you do you work, you should check it, to see if you got it right, and if you failed, try again.

So, he doesn't want students to check their work, eh? After that first assignment, I'd cheat by every method I could possibly think of at every opportunity, because at this point, he has made it about grades, rather than about education.

The only time you can't go back and re-work and check the internet for help is during a test. You're SUPPOSED to look things up with homework, homework is for learning before a test. After all, the whole point of homework is to prepare yourself for a test, if you don't do the homework, if you just copy the answers, you won't be ready for the test. So what exactly is he achieving by not letting students get the maximum value out of homework?

Re: How to Catch a Cheater

#69

Post by Andys »

tomjen3 wrote: post #46
Semiapies wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder how many perfectly honest students did worse on the impromptu re-take two weeks later, with entirely new material on their minds.

Agreed it seems that it is always the honest students who gets the short end of the stick. Thats a good thing though - it prepares the students for the real world.

Prepares them for a life time of being good little DRM'd content consumers?

Re: How to Catch a Cheater

#70

Post by dkarl »

Semiapies wrote: post #30
dkarl wrote: post #10

My AP (Advanced Placement) Chemistry teacher noticed some cheating on a major chemistry test we took. The cheating was pretty obvious; some kids just decided they were going to fail the test so they might as well have some fun. A week later, after a week of lecturing on a new section of the chemistry book and no mention of our scores, a student asked. No, he hadn't graded the tests. He was sorry, he had been really b…

I wonder how many perfectly honest students did worse on the impromptu re-take two weeks later, with entirely new material on their minds.

Good question -- I honestly don't remember. He only wanted to punish the cheaters, so I imagine he curved the test. He often added a fixed number to everyone's score to bring the best or second-best score up to 100. (It's not really "curving," but that's what we called it.)
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