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24/192 Music Downloads and why they make no sense (2012)

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Re: 24/192 Music Downloads and why they make no sense (2012)

#221
post #71
post #6

This reminds me of Monty's A Digital Media Primer for Geeks[0] and Digital Show & Tell[1] - the delivery, the explanations and the way the experiments are set up is superb. [0] https://xiph.org/video/vid1.shtml [1] https://xiph.org/video/vid2.shtml

The article's author, Chris "Monty" Montgomery, is one of the authors of Ogg Vorbis [1] and Opus [2]. It puzzles me that many people don't yet know about Opus. Let me quote the FAQ [3]: "Does Opus make all those other lossy codecs obsolete? Yes. From a technical point of view (loss, delay, bitrates, ...) Opus renders Speex obsolete and should also replace Vorbis and the common proprietary codecs too (e.g. AAC, MP3, .…

I thought for a moment that Spotify uses Opus, but it turns out that they use Vorbis. Wonder why a switch isn't on their roadmap.

Re: 24/192 Music Downloads and why they make no sense (2012)

#222
post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not that concerned, 256K mp3 has been good enough. Although it wouldn't be hard to automate a conversion to another format for my entire collection, given that I have lossless originals.

If I have a large FLAC collection and want to export the whole thing to MP3 or AAC copies, what would I do to automate that?

For AAC or MP3:

ffmpeg and a makefile with a pattern rule is pretty reasonable; (substutite any make-replacement if you prefer). If you are doing AAC, make sure you use the Fraunhofer FDK AAC not the builtin one (the builtin one used to be terrible, but is now somewhere between "okay" and "pretty good" but the FDK is still considered better last I checked, and your distro may not have an up-to-date ffmpeg).

ffmpeg is pretty good about preserving metadata.

If you want ID3v1 tags for MP3 (only needed for older players), then pass -write_id3v1; there's little downside to putting the id3v1 tag on there as it's quite small.

Links for basic ffmpeg encoding; it shows with .wav input but ffmpeg can read flac just fine and should preserve tags: 1,2

For Ogg output, oggenc can read flac directly and preserve tags, so I've never tried using ffmpeg.

I however, ripped my CD collection to a single flac per disc plus a TOC, and abcde[3] will automate that, including a musicbrainz or CDDB lookup for tagging.

1: https://trac.ffmpeg.org/wiki/Encode/MP3

2: https://trac.ffmpeg.org/wiki/Encode/AAC

3: https://abcde.einval.com/wiki/

Re: 24/192 Music Downloads and why they make no sense (2012)

#223
post #188
post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which is great ...for you... but what if in the future you could hear the differences? And now your entire collection is in MP3 V2 - now what? No reason to not rip everything in uncompressed FLAC these days. But if your happy with your audio now, great!

The reverse is overwhelmingly more likely. For 8khz+ frequencies (where most compression takes place) your hearing declines pretty quickly once you hit 30 years. Whatever real compression differences you're hearing at 20 will be largely gone 10 years later, and almost certainly 20 years later.

But in 20 years there will be new 20-year-olds. And one day there may be 40-year-olds that didn't damage their hearing with leaf blowers and rock concerts. And there may be a future compression algorithm so good that no one can tell, but you need a lossless original to take advantage of it.

Re: 24/192 Music Downloads and why they make no sense (2012)

#224
post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As far as I am aware, iTunes is not even able to play back FLACs, so when I am on a Mac, I use Clementine, ( https://www.clementine-player.org ), or cmus, ( https://cmus.github.io ). Converting etc. I do exclusively on my Linux desktop, so can't help you there.

iTunes doesn't support FLAC, but it does support ALAC, whose implementation is also open-source. And it has a neat feature where it can store ALAC on your computer, and automatically transcode to a (much smaller) lossy format when syncing to a mobile device.

Yeah, I'm aware, I just feel like FLAC is the more popular, more multi-platform friendly/preferred option, definitely seems to have more momentum behind it, it's easier to buy FLAC then ALAC for one.

Re: 24/192 Music Downloads and why they make no sense (2012)

#225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But aren't you worried you'll lose access to your music? I have to own it! I can't have it at the whim of multiple third parties to take down as they see fit. It's too important.

Do you feel the same about cable TV or Netflix?

Yes.

Re: 24/192 Music Downloads and why they make no sense (2012)

#226
post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even though it's theoretically possible to send over Bluetooth without reencoding, I wonder if it happens in practice. The audio pipeline has too many stages and each of them would have to retain the encoding.

good point. the developer settings on my pixel 2 allow me to set the preferred codec, but I've never dug into it enough to know whether the setting is actually honored. all my music is MP3 anyway so it's going to sound awful over Bluetooth no matter what.

Similar developer settings on the S8+/Note 9 - as soon as you connect to a device that doesn't support your chosen codec, it'll reset. I can tell the difference between APT-X and AAC, but I've got no idea if the AAC is being re-encoded.

Re: 24/192 Music Downloads and why they make no sense (2012)

#227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is also why modern vinyl releases sound a lot better than digital: they are mastered differently since its assumed everyone is going to be listening on good equipment. Sorry, I don't know much about sound so here comes probably the most stupid question of the day (but hope never dies): does this mean that I might get better sound if I would buy a vinyl & one of those turntables which can directly digitize to U…

(Assuming you're okay with piracy…) You're better off searching for vinyl rips where people with good equipment have done the heavy lifting for you.

Actually you're right (what shall I say, for some mysterious reason I didn't think about it) => I'll first do a comparison with whatever I find and then if it does sound better I'll try to achieve the same results on my own (I'm obsessed with owning originals). Thx :)

Re: 24/192 Music Downloads and why they make no sense (2012)

#228
post #188
post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which is great ...for you... but what if in the future you could hear the differences? And now your entire collection is in MP3 V2 - now what? No reason to not rip everything in uncompressed FLAC these days. But if your happy with your audio now, great!

The reverse is overwhelmingly more likely. For 8khz+ frequencies (where most compression takes place) your hearing declines pretty quickly once you hit 30 years. Whatever real compression differences you're hearing at 20 will be largely gone 10 years later, and almost certainly 20 years later.

Notch Inhibition Induces Cochlear Hair Cell Regeneration and Recovery of Hearing after Acoustic Trauma

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S089662731...

Stick to FLAC and keep your fingers crossed for cochlear regeneration tech ;)

Re: 24/192 Music Downloads and why they make no sense (2012)

#229
post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is also why modern vinyl releases sound a lot better than digital: they are mastered differently since its assumed everyone is going to be listening on good equipment. I'm going to disagree here. They are mastered differently because the physical limitations of the media require them to be mastered differently _and_ it just so happens that the physical limitations help limit mastering tricks in a way that prod…

You can put brickwalled audio on a vinyl record and have it play just fine if you cut it at a lower volume. This negates the reason for mastering it that way in the first place, but it's cheaper than redoing the mastering, and many people buying vinyl only do so for the image. See: https://wiki.hydrogenaud.io/index.php?title=Myths_(Vinyl)#My...

That's a fair point. And I totally agree on that second statement. :D

Re: 24/192 Music Downloads and why they make no sense (2012)

#230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> modern vinyl releases sound a lot better than digital Look, I actually grew up with vinyl and 4-track tape, and audio cassettes. Unlike most folks being all trendy and hip nowadays, I've years of using that stuff. Analog is shit. It's noisy, has a ton of distortion, and it gets shittier every time you copy it. Oh, and if you just keep it in storage, guess what, it decays just by sitting there (vinyl collects dust a…

Couldn’t agree more. I grew up with cassette and LP. First time I heard a CD, specifically Pink Floyd’s Money with the cash register, it was jaw dropping. LPs are cool for the artwork, but that’s it. That being said, I still only buy music in CD, due to all the hassle of DRM and playback. I just want to drop in a CD and listen to the entire album, not futz with computers, encoders, and software. I have a simple CD pl…

> I still only buy music in CD

That's what I do. I tend to favor old master copies.

I rip them to both FLAC and MP3. The former is for listening at home, the latter for mobile scenarios. I store everything on the Linux server at home, and share via UPnP. VPN into the home network gives me access from anywhere.

Foobar2000 is my preferred player on Windows, BubbleUPNP on Android.

> kit built tube amp

What's the distortion on that thing?

The vast majority of tube kit schematics are very old tech, stuff that engineers from the 1930s would recognize. Their THD (coefficient of total harmonic distortion) is very high. What is known as "tube sound" is basically just huge THD, along with a specific distribution of energy across the harmonic orders.

It's fun as a hobby, and for the satisfaction of building stuff on your own, but even the simplest schematics built on modern principles vastly outperform these things by essentially all metrics.

Some tube amps are built specifically for low THD, but unfortunately they are rare. When in doubt, use solid state.

> homemade single driver speakers

I used to build everything myself back in the day. Speakers and amps was just part of it. Also did automation, radio frequency (I'm a licensed HAM radio operator), digital circuits from logic gates to DAC/ADC to systems with microprocessors to small computers. It's a small miracle I didn't actually go into electrical engineering.

You really need multiple drivers and likely a subwoofer also, to cover the whole audible spectrum.

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