Weekend ‘catch-up sleep’ is a lie • Hacker News Board

Re: Weekend ‘catch-up sleep’ is a lie

#241

Post by outworlder » Wed, Mar 06, 2019, 7:17 PM UTC

mruts wrote: post #105

lm28469 wrote: post #85

Sleep is fun, people who regularly lack it will tell you they're "just fine" but they've been lacking sleep for so long that the baseline they're comparing themselves to is already skewed. Take two weeks off, avoid alcohol and other stimulant, avoid artificial light after 8 and wake up without an alarm. You'll see how you feel after that regimen. Your body knows exactly how much sleep it needs. But that's not compati…

I dunno, maybe I’m weird, but without an alarm I can sleep 12 hours. And when I do, I feel like total shit: very tired, groggy, and a little depressed. If I sleep 5-7 hours on the otherhand, I feel much better.

I'll echo others who are saying that this could be because you are normally sleep-deprived.

Try to increase your bedtime slowly to 8 hours, maybe 9(but not much more than that) and keep at that for a while. See if there is any benefit.

It is unlikely that you are part of the tiny minority that requires less than 6 hours of sleep, so you should be sleep-deprived with only 5 hours.

Personal anecdote: my sleep patterns were very similar. Until I got diagnosed with sleep apnea. My body wanted more sleep – but the more I slept, the more apnea events I would have. So, I would wake up feeling like death, and with a headache, due to my brain getting starved of oxygen.

Not saying that this is your problem or that there is even a problem, but you could raise this issue on your next checkup. Maybe your doctor will have some suggestions.

Because it is weird, as you rightly point out. Trust your judgement.

Re: Weekend ‘catch-up sleep’ is a lie

#242

Post by dnh44 » Wed, Mar 06, 2019, 7:25 PM UTC

jrnichols wrote: post #215

stronglikedan wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I, too, keep water by the bedside and drink some before falling asleep. However, the older I get, the less I drink, so I don't wake up every couple hours to pee. The moral of this story: don't get old.

this is true. my bladder wakes me up before most everything else, and it won't let me go back to sleep until it's addressed. I'd love to sleep 8-9 hours a night, but my kidneys have other plans for me. source: am old.

Try having a look at Saw Palmetto tablets. It’s stopped my dad from having to wake twice in the night to use the bathroom.

Re: Weekend ‘catch-up sleep’ is a lie

#243

Post by vram22 » Wed, Mar 06, 2019, 7:47 PM UTC

purerandomness wrote: post #121

mruts wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dunno, maybe I’m weird, but without an alarm I can sleep 12 hours. And when I do, I feel like total shit: very tired, groggy, and a little depressed. If I sleep 5-7 hours on the otherhand, I feel much better.

I'm convinced that it's just your body trying to catch up all the sleep it didn't get. Of course, lying down for a long time will have side effect on your muscles (headaches, groggyness) but I'm sure your body would return to normal sleep patterns after some time.

Why headaches from lying down for a long time?

Re: Weekend ‘catch-up sleep’ is a lie

#244

Post by vram22 » Wed, Mar 06, 2019, 8:01 PM UTC

nkingsy wrote: post #154

michaelt wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

avoid artificial light after 8 To follow this advice in my location (sunset today 6pm) should I be going to bed at 8pm? Or should I be trying to read by moonlight or something?

Haven’t heard of blue light blocker glasses. My wife and I put in red led bulbs for our nightstand lights and read paper books or magazines for about a half hour before going to sleep. I also do legs up the wall for about 10 minutes right before going to sleep and that really helps me.

How does red light help sleep? I googled just now, saw some stuff, but interested to see what you think or know.

Re: Weekend ‘catch-up sleep’ is a lie

#245

Post by nkingsy » Wed, Mar 06, 2019, 9:06 PM UTC

vram22 wrote: post #244

nkingsy wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Haven’t heard of blue light blocker glasses. My wife and I put in red led bulbs for our nightstand lights and read paper books or magazines for about a half hour before going to sleep. I also do legs up the wall for about 10 minutes right before going to sleep and that really helps me.

How does red light help sleep? I googled just now, saw some stuff, but interested to see what you think or know.

more red signals sunset to the brain. Read in the HN comments that bunks in the navy are equipped with red lights so one person can read without disturbing the sleep of others.

Re: Weekend ‘catch-up sleep’ is a lie

#246

Post by UnFleshedOne » Wed, Mar 06, 2019, 9:29 PM UTC

vram22 wrote: post #243

purerandomness wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm convinced that it's just your body trying to catch up all the sleep it didn't get. Of course, lying down for a long time will have side effect on your muscles (headaches, groggyness) but I'm sure your body would return to normal sleep patterns after some time.

Why headaches from lying down for a long time?

Dehydration most likely.

Re: Weekend ‘catch-up sleep’ is a lie

#247

Post by joveian » Wed, Mar 06, 2019, 9:43 PM UTC

outworlder wrote: post #241

mruts wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dunno, maybe I’m weird, but without an alarm I can sleep 12 hours. And when I do, I feel like total shit: very tired, groggy, and a little depressed. If I sleep 5-7 hours on the otherhand, I feel much better.

I'll echo others who are saying that this could be because you are normally sleep-deprived. Try to increase your bedtime slowly to 8 hours, maybe 9(but not much more than that) and keep at that for a while. See if there is any benefit. It is unlikely that you are part of the tiny minority that requires less than 6 hours of sleep, so you should be sleep-deprived with only 5 hours. Personal anecdote: my sleep patterns…

As someone who has had a ton of sleep issues over the years this seems like the best advice here, although I would not increase past 8 hours and a regular 7 hours is likely to be fine for most people. Sleep apnea and circadian issues are common and worth considering, but there is a lot of individual variation in sleep so ultimately what feels best to you is likely what is best for you (other than that In my experience it takes years for circadian changes to stabilize, at least once they are sufficiently disrupted (I have Non-24 and have been able to stop shifting my sleep for over a year at a time but eventually it comes back). At the same time, it seems to me that catching up on sleep is only really possible to a limited extent and only for a couple of days after sleep deprevation no matter how long the deprevation. Getting sufficient sleep for a while after sleep deprevation does seem to help reduce the effects of future deprevation, but I don't think getting extra sleep really helps. Keeping a stable circadian rhythm with suffient sleep is most important.

I suspect that if not something like apnea that 10-12 hour sleep might be due to how sleep is maintained. There is a sleep or awake switch in the brain and also a "maintain the current state" network. To make the shift to awake cleanly, the "maintain current state" system is likely stronger in the morning (on a circadian rhythm, not just "after you wake up") but if you manage to be sleeping at the time it kicks in more strongly it may keep you asleep for hours even without any particular need to be asleep. This isn't necessarily what is actually happening but I think it fits the evidence.

I don't think longer sleep is always worse than the alternative, however I suspect if it feels necessary then it is a sign of a more serious sleep issue and if it doesn't feel necessary then aiming for a regular circadian rhythm with sufficient sleep is a better option.

Re: Weekend ‘catch-up sleep’ is a lie

#248

Post by joveian » Wed, Mar 06, 2019, 10:13 PM UTC

misiti3780 wrote: post #239

michaelt wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

avoid artificial light after 8 To follow this advice in my location (sunset today 6pm) should I be going to bed at 8pm? Or should I be trying to read by moonlight or something?

i dont think a kindle counts as artificial light, could be wrong though.

It does and using it in a dark room is worse than having background light. Fully avoiding artificial light after 8 is quite difficult but limiting blue light and bright light is easier.

Re: Weekend ‘catch-up sleep’ is a lie

#249

Post by xster » Wed, Mar 06, 2019, 10:19 PM UTC

mruts wrote: post #105

lm28469 wrote: post #85

Sleep is fun, people who regularly lack it will tell you they're "just fine" but they've been lacking sleep for so long that the baseline they're comparing themselves to is already skewed. Take two weeks off, avoid alcohol and other stimulant, avoid artificial light after 8 and wake up without an alarm. You'll see how you feel after that regimen. Your body knows exactly how much sleep it needs. But that's not compati…

I dunno, maybe I’m weird, but without an alarm I can sleep 12 hours. And when I do, I feel like total shit: very tired, groggy, and a little depressed. If I sleep 5-7 hours on the otherhand, I feel much better.

In another the-body-realize-it's-ok-to-open-the-floodgate moment, I would always get really sick after making it through some intense deadline. I think it's just the body finally realizing it's ok to stop constantly keeping everything in turbo mode rather than associating the causation backwards.

Re: Weekend ‘catch-up sleep’ is a lie

#250

Post by alexozer » Wed, Mar 06, 2019, 10:50 PM UTC

Blue light blocking glasses have had such a tremendously positive effect on my sleep habits (earlier bedtime, better sleep quality) that at this point I genuinely feel bad for people who don't use them.

I got a pair that claims to block a very large amount of blue light (at the expense of a distinct orange tint), and just wear them after it gets dark.

It makes sense that they work; your brain uses blue light to time the release of melatonin and such, and our ancestors were only exposed to non-blue light from sitting besides the campfire socializing after the sun went down.

Wearing these allows me to experience much less of a consequence for using a computer at night which I simply cannot get myself to avoid.