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Re-entry to US without backscatter or pat-down

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Re: Re-entry to US without backscatter or pat-down

#61

Post by tzs »

acabal wrote: post #10

Oh wow, I had no idea they scan you after re-entering the country. I'm flying to Chicago O'Hare from London Gatwick on Dec 2, and now I'm concerned about this. Does anyone know precisely what my rights are as a US citizen upon re-entering the country to avoid all of this ridiculousness? I know that Customs has some Constitutional power for searches and so on (and there's that insane 100-mile "border" where people can…

On the Reddit discussion of this, someone pointed out that at the particular airport involved when you leave Customs you have to pass through the secure area to exit the airport. There's no exit path from customs that bypasses going through the secure area. That may be the reason people entering the country are checked.

Re: Re-entry to US without backscatter or pat-down

#62

Post by detst »

ck2 wrote: post #50

Except he'll probably get a surprise $10k fine (civil lawsuit) a few months from now. For anyone else trying to prevent a gate-rape freedom-fondle, do not try the "less clothes" approach, this one ended with an arrest: http://www.printthis.clickability.com/pt/cpt?action=cpt&... There is also some documentation now that the scanners produce TWENTY times the claimed radiation level: http://holt.house.gov/index.php?opti…

> Except he'll probably get a surprise $10k fine (civil lawsuit) a few months from now.

It's actually $11k apparently and I hope someone with the money, time and energy does get brought into one of these suits. I hope it happens soon so it can gain the media attention that this whole thing is getting right now.

But considering this man was escorted out of the airport and told he is free to go, I can't see how they could possibly get away with it in this case.

Re: Re-entry to US without backscatter or pat-down

#63

Post by jacquesm »

ck2 wrote: post #58
jacquesm wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Except he'll probably get a surprise $10k fine (civil lawsuit) a few months from now. What do you base that on ?

http://gawker.com/5689925/man-threatened-with-10000-fine-aft... https://docs.google.com/gview?url=http://www.tsa.gov/assets/... https://docs.google.com/gview?url=http://www.tsa.gov/assets/...

Nice pdfs, there does not seem to be a single item in there that matches your $10K fine for anything the guy did, in fact he has a bunch of police officers on hand as witnesses that he behaved impeccably.

What specific reason (instead of links to a bunch of documents) do you see for them slapping a civil suit on him ?

The gawker article reads:

"He said that once I start the screening in the secure area, I could not leave until it was completed. Having left the area, he stated, I would be subject to a civil suit and a $10,000 fine... He again asserted the necessity that I return to the screening area."

That is not the same as actually being charged with something and having such a fine levied against you, especially not in a civil suit (which is separate from the fine).

I don't see any proof such a suit was brought or the fine was actually levied.

There would have to be an infraction and this guy was not detained (he would have been if there were such an infraction, you can just about count on that).

Re: Re-entry to US without backscatter or pat-down

#64

Post by stcredzero »

dedward wrote: post #45
dadkins wrote: post #20

Does anyone know why the TSA even gives you the choice to opt out of the backscatter machines? You can't opt out of the metal detectors. It seems like the default policy would be for the new machines to be mandatory as well.

Because they are controversial, show you naked, expose you to x-ray, and they thought this would be a better way for people to accept it from a PR point of view. Metal detectors are non-invasive, efficient, don't take naked pictures of you, and you are still supposed to opt-out if you have something like a pacemaker where the metal detector represents a possible health risk.

The government does not have the right to make me submit to a dose of penetrating ionizing radiation, no matter how small the dose!

This is invasive. I don't know how a court could find this to be "routine."

Re: Re-entry to US without backscatter or pat-down

#65

Post by CWuestefeld »

chc wrote: post #11
ojbyrne wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think his point is that some other countries don't take the latest TSA requirements seriously, and if you come from one of those countries, the TSA will screen you because of that.

I don't understand the point of that point. If the reason for the X-ray machines is to stop people from smuggling dangerous materials onto planes and using them to cause harm, scanning people after they get off the plane is the most literal analogue I've ever seen for shutting the barn door after the horses have fled. Imagine a daycare center that had a policy of running background checks on its employees only once t…

Back in '02, when people were still at high-paranoia following the initial terrorist attacks, my wife and I were flying to Bali via Japan and the Hong Kong. The plane landed in Japan only for refueling, but they pulled everyone off the place, ran us through metal detectors, and back onto the plane, making our departure an hour late.

I can't imagine what they were trying to do. Were they afraid we had fabricated weapons of our own in the 14+/- hours we'd been on the plane? What if we'd just left those weapons at our seats?

Re: Re-entry to US without backscatter or pat-down

#67

Post by stcredzero »

dpatru wrote: post #4

The trouble with the Internet is that it's so hard for the government to keep secrets anymore. It's exciting to see in real time how American citizens are working together to challenge and change unreasonable government policy. First by broadcasting government abuse and now by documenting successful tactics.

One thing that came out in this blog post -- it seems there may be a policy that the TSA employees are specifically forbidden to wear radiation dosimetry badges.

What!? How in the world is this a sane policy? Who is this policy meant to protect?

Re: Re-entry to US without backscatter or pat-down

#68

Post by jacquesm »

hartror wrote: post #66

Ah – he’s gotten the Miranda talk. I hide my smile. Anyone know what this is? Edit: Thanks, live in Australia so don't get all the lingo.

The miranda talk is the formal speech an officer makes before they move on you so that you know your rights.

Re: Re-entry to US without backscatter or pat-down

#70

Post by stcredzero »

jwu711 wrote: post #18

I can just imagine that reporters are just going to be flying in and out now so they can get some create articles and stories from all of this

I hope so. $11,000 is a fine price to pay for a well written story about personal freedom. Hell, why aren't there dozens of Kickstarter journalism projects for this?
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