European Parliament set to end EU-wide daylight savings • Hacker News Board

Re: European Parliament set to end EU-wide daylight savings

#231

Post by CalRobert » Wed, Mar 06, 2019, 5:04 PM UTC

timthorn wrote: post #38

BurritoAlPastor wrote: post #15

The graphic would seem to indicate that the UK and Portugal observe a time zone of Coordinated Universal Time (UTC±0). This is nonsense, of course; UTC is not a time zone. I believe the UK observes GMT (UTC±0) and Portugal uses Western European Time (UTC±0). It's also worth looking up the story of why Coordinated Universal Time is abbreviated UTC and not CUT, if you haven't heard it. Time zones are great.

> I believe the UK observes GMT (UTC±0) That's correct, with BST in the Summer. It can get confusing when working with people from different countries who aren't aware of BST and who schedule meetings explicitly in GMT, thinking that it automatically includes daylight saving.

Not to mention when people say PST when that is explicitly the _wrong_ time zone half the year.

It's PDT in summer.

Re: European Parliament set to end EU-wide daylight savings

#232

Post by TheCoelacanth » Wed, Mar 06, 2019, 5:05 PM UTC

bnegreve wrote: post #146

mabbo wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you do you- just don't force the complexity of your life on the rest of us. We can contribute a measurable number of deaths every year to DST. It's a disaster.

I say it's natural to wake up when the sun raises, you say it's natural to stick to the same hour all year long. I'm not forcing anything anymore than you do.

> I say it's natural to wake up when the sun raises, you say it's natural to stick to the same hour all year long.

Either of those is fine. What's not fine is making everyone change their clocks twice a year so that those options are more similar to each other.

Re: European Parliament set to end EU-wide daylight savings

#233

Post by slavik81 » Wed, Mar 06, 2019, 5:07 PM UTC

pmontra wrote: post #111

diminish wrote: post #107

The `daylight saving` purpose is intriguing. I'm very curious why people long time ago, decided to change clocks, instead of work/school start and finish times. Like we start in April at 8:00 am, and in November, at 9:00.

I believe the reason is that it costs less to move the hands of a clock than to print and distribute new timetables for trains, buses, etc. That could cost less today because we use much less paper, but updating web sites and databases is still a large amount of work. It's far easier to communicate to all the country when to move the clock and keep everything else the same.

Where I live, we get both. They change both the time and the bus schedules in accordance with the seasons.

Re: European Parliament set to end EU-wide daylight savings

#234

Post by wazoox » Wed, Mar 06, 2019, 5:16 PM UTC

anticensor wrote: post #206

wazoox wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You forgot my favourite time slots, 11-7, 12-8 and 1-9 :)

Afternoon or night?

Afternoon.

Re: European Parliament set to end EU-wide daylight savings

#235

Post by andai » Wed, Mar 06, 2019, 5:21 PM UTC

athenot wrote: post #192

spiderfarmer wrote: post #174

Lets also try and spread working times from (mostly) 9-5 to 6-2, 7-3, 8-4, 9-5 and 10-6 so we can solve the traffic congestion problem, all while enabling people to work when they work best.

I would love this. But it seems what pegs everyone to the same schedule is uniform school hours for K-12.

There's a lot of research lately indicating that the current school hours are harmful and should be adjusted.

Re: European Parliament set to end EU-wide daylight savings

#236

Post by runarberg » Wed, Mar 06, 2019, 5:22 PM UTC

henrikschroder wrote: post #18

runarberg wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please don’t do that. Sleep is really important, and waking up before sunrise is potentially detrimental to overall sleep in the population.

Yeah, uh, that doesn't work in northern Europe, or you'd have everyone asleep until 10. On a meta note: It is always super interesting to me how fundamental people think that day length is, if they've never experienced living at different latitudes. The variations are absolutely enormous, and create very different mindsets. That said, seasonal mood disorders are very common in northern Europe for a reason. Going to s…

you’re not wrong, however this is a gross oversimplification. If you are on a permanent daylight savings time at high latitudes, you will have more people staying up late and waking up early for a longer period of the year. The difference is not negligible. In fact Iceland (currently on permanent daylight savings time; where I have lived most of my life) is considering moving the clock closer to solar time. They are citing public health reasons for the move.

Re: European Parliament set to end EU-wide daylight savings

#237

Post by mabbo » Wed, Mar 06, 2019, 5:27 PM UTC

gassit wrote: post #170

mabbo wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I spent a year in Edinburgh. The sun rose after 9am in winter, after I started classes, and set at 4pm, before I got home. DST prevented me from ever seeing the sun for weeks. I went mad.

You spent a year there and didn’t work out there was no DST in winter?

... dammit. Alright, you've won me over. I'm an idiot.

Re: European Parliament set to end EU-wide daylight savings

#238

Post by runarberg » Wed, Mar 06, 2019, 5:28 PM UTC

henrikschroder wrote: post #30

runarberg wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please don’t do that. Sleep is really important, and waking up before sunrise is potentially detrimental to overall sleep in the population.

Also do check the daylight graphs I posted in other comments, but here's an example from northern Norway: https://www.timeanddate.com/sun/norway/narvik For a month of winter, there is no daylight at all . It is literally impossible to wake up after sunrise, because sunrise doesn't happen for an entire month.

The adverse effects of sleep deprivation accumulate. It does make sense to minimize the time you have to wake up before daylight.

Re: European Parliament set to end EU-wide daylight savings

#239

Post by blattimwind » Wed, Mar 06, 2019, 5:32 PM UTC

afarrell wrote: post #226

blattimwind wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reason being that people picked this up very quickly and for once this poll even made it into mass media before it was over . I think this only shows how much changing clocks annoys people; they hear about a poll, they go vote. AIUI in most other countries this initial pick-up and publicity just didn't happen.

> mass media In which languages?

Implied by context: German media.

Re: European Parliament set to end EU-wide daylight savings

#240

Post by runarberg » Wed, Mar 06, 2019, 5:33 PM UTC

dragonwriter wrote: post #200

thomasedwards wrote: post #153

So many people, including a lot of comments here, seem to think that it’s designed around the winter. It’s not, it’s to move an hour of sunlight from the start of the day (say, 4am) to the end of the day (say, 9pm) so that you use less energy in the summer (hence the ‘savings’), and then you can enjoy that rather than being asleep. Moving to summer time year-round means that the mornings in the winter will be darker.…

> Moving to summer time year-round means that the mornings in the winter will be darker The US is already on DST most of the year, so permanent DST is simply the minimum-change method of abandoning clock shifts.

Please consult public health experts before making any decision like this. I have a feeling that suicide rates in the US northern states might go up if they stay on a permanent DST.