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Let over Lambda – Common Lisp Book (2008)

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Re: Let over Lambda – Common Lisp Book (2008)

#41

Post by naasking »

m00natic wrote: post #39
tuukkah wrote: post #36

> it describes the most advanced features of the most advanced language: COMMON LISP. I thought Haskell surpassed it a long time ago already.

So where's Haskell's advanced object system or the restart/condition system that Common Lisp has? Even its performance is hardly on par with CL for all the flexibility of the latter.

> So where's Haskell's advanced object system

Doesn't need one.

> restart/condition system that Common Lisp has

Utility is questionable, but you could build one in the continuation monad.

Re: Let over Lambda – Common Lisp Book (2008)

#42

Post by tuukkah »

m00natic wrote: post #39
tuukkah wrote: post #36

> it describes the most advanced features of the most advanced language: COMMON LISP. I thought Haskell surpassed it a long time ago already.

So where's Haskell's advanced object system or the restart/condition system that Common Lisp has? Even its performance is hardly on par with CL for all the flexibility of the latter.

I'm not saying it has everything that Common Lisp has - it's different.

Re: Let over Lambda – Common Lisp Book (2008)

#43

Post by kyancey »

sametmax wrote: post #38
4thaccount wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're looking at it from the point of one to a few coders and you're looking at it from an industrial view with larger teams. I think it probably shines more in the former. If macros aren't overused, it's probably not all that different from other dynamic languages like Python that work fine with larger teams.

It is very different than Python. In Lisp, they say "here is a tool that can do anything. Have fun". In Python they say: "here are many tools that are specific and limited to that purpose. Also you gona take bad decisions, so we limited it some more". The first approach is appealing to very good programmers. The second one, to anybody who had to work with the vast majority of normal programmers. I prefer the second o…

The first approach is also appealing to very bad programmers who think they're good programmers.

Re: Let over Lambda – Common Lisp Book (2008)

#44

Post by eatonphil »

I enjoyed this book. I personally did not find it condescending. Additionally, the implementation of a Forth interpreter in this book is the best introduction to Forth I've seen (even after years spent playing with Forth and reading one or two books on Forth). But I don't recommend this book as an introduction to (Common) Lisp.

I recommend this order:

1. Practical Common Lisp

2. On Lisp (kind of a big jump, so maybe check out ANSI Common Lisp)

3. Let over Lambda

4. Lisp in Small Pieces (especially if you want to implement a Scheme or Common Lisp)

With Common Lisp the Language (Guy Steele) and ANSI Common Lisp (Paul Graham) somewhere in the mix.

These are all excellent books and must-reads for anyone interested in programming languages and/or the Lisp family.

Re: Let over Lambda – Common Lisp Book (2008)

#46

Post by z3phyr »

eatonphil wrote: post #44

I enjoyed this book. I personally did not find it condescending. Additionally, the implementation of a Forth interpreter in this book is the best introduction to Forth I've seen (even after years spent playing with Forth and reading one or two books on Forth). But I don't recommend this book as an introduction to (Common) Lisp. I recommend this order: 1. Practical Common Lisp 2. On Lisp (kind of a big jump, so maybe…

> 2. On Macros I have heard about On-Lisp. Is this the same reference?

Re: Let over Lambda – Common Lisp Book (2008)

#47

Post by eatonphil »

z3phyr wrote: post #46
eatonphil wrote: post #44

I enjoyed this book. I personally did not find it condescending. Additionally, the implementation of a Forth interpreter in this book is the best introduction to Forth I've seen (even after years spent playing with Forth and reading one or two books on Forth). But I don't recommend this book as an introduction to (Common) Lisp. I recommend this order: 1. Practical Common Lisp 2. On Lisp (kind of a big jump, so maybe…

> 2. On Macros I have heard about On-Lisp. Is this the same reference?

Oops, Freudian slip. The entire book is about macros. Thank you!

Re: Let over Lambda – Common Lisp Book (2008)

#48

Post by astine »

letoverkappa wrote: post #30
coldtea wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or, you know, the author knows his stuff and is deservedly condescending in an industry of trends and cargo cults. As in arts and politics, some curmudgeons are needed in every field, if not for anything else, to show that there's another way than the mainstream. (They don't have to be perfectly right either -- it's having a strong perspective that counts, nobody is 100% right anyway).

"Deservedly condescending" is not an actual thing that exists in the world. The words you're looking for are "writes poorly."

This is an ironically condescending statement.

Re: Let over Lambda – Common Lisp Book (2008)

#49

Post by agumonkey »

m00natic wrote: post #39
tuukkah wrote: post #36

> it describes the most advanced features of the most advanced language: COMMON LISP. I thought Haskell surpassed it a long time ago already.

So where's Haskell's advanced object system or the restart/condition system that Common Lisp has? Even its performance is hardly on par with CL for all the flexibility of the latter.

the world needs less objects, you know the koan `objects or closures: yes`

Re: Let over Lambda – Common Lisp Book (2008)

#50

Post by agumonkey »

slightly related: the clasp/cando team has some news to share

Putting this here because I'm not aware of a lot of research done in/with lisp these days (only other thing I know is the quantum computer dsl)

https://old.reddit.com/r/lisp/comments/axu858/here_is_what_w...

> This our (thirdlaw.tech's) computational chemistry system Cando. Some might remember it from Lisp conferences or our previous videos. Here is a demo of going through a free energy perturbation calculation. FEP is very important in chemistry right now. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZRuGt4TcD8&list=PLbl4KVdl9U...

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