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Weekend ‘catch-up sleep’ is a lie

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Re: Weekend ‘catch-up sleep’ is a lie

#131
post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think you can dismiss a scientific article without arguments. Please prove your points.

A 9 day study includes only one weekend. In a study about weekends. One data point is never enough to make any inferences.

It depends what you are trying to prove. To prove that catchup sleep doesn't work, you need to find at which weekend it stops working. If it's the first week end, you don't need to iterate, as the person's condition will only get worse.

Re: Weekend ‘catch-up sleep’ is a lie

#132
post #85

Sleep is fun, people who regularly lack it will tell you they're "just fine" but they've been lacking sleep for so long that the baseline they're comparing themselves to is already skewed. Take two weeks off, avoid alcohol and other stimulant, avoid artificial light after 8 and wake up without an alarm. You'll see how you feel after that regimen. Your body knows exactly how much sleep it needs. But that's not compati…

avoid artificial light after 8 To follow this advice in my location (sunset today 6pm) should I be going to bed at 8pm? Or should I be trying to read by moonlight or something?

Get blue light blocker glasses and it'll help a lot. Avoid backlit devices as they're the worst.

You don't have to go to bed at 8, just don't stay in bright light at least a few hours before you want to fall asleep.

Re: Weekend ‘catch-up sleep’ is a lie

#133
post #105
post #85

Sleep is fun, people who regularly lack it will tell you they're "just fine" but they've been lacking sleep for so long that the baseline they're comparing themselves to is already skewed. Take two weeks off, avoid alcohol and other stimulant, avoid artificial light after 8 and wake up without an alarm. You'll see how you feel after that regimen. Your body knows exactly how much sleep it needs. But that's not compati…

I dunno, maybe I’m weird, but without an alarm I can sleep 12 hours. And when I do, I feel like total shit: very tired, groggy, and a little depressed. If I sleep 5-7 hours on the otherhand, I feel much better.

See, I'm the opposite. Even without the screen time or stimulation, I will fall dead asleep at 10pm, and no matter what, will wake up promptly at 4am.

I feel like there really are people who have different needs.

Re: Weekend ‘catch-up sleep’ is a lie

#134

When I first had a kid, it was living hell. I mean, it was wonderful, and joyful (really, I'm not kidding) but waking up 5 times a night with a screaming 2 month old was effing brutal. I wore a 50 yard stare all the time, my colleagues tell me. Now, though, with an 18 month old I do a lot better - maybe even better than before having her. She still wakes up early (6:30 AM or so) BUT now that I know I absolutely, posi…

My favorite thing as a parent is telling other parents that kids are a joy.

They are (after the first 10 months are over). But for that first 6-10 months, oh sweet fuck is it miserable. I honestly don't remember anything from that time period other than exhaustion. And you can see it on new parents faces. That blank, almost ptsd stare.

It's hilarious.

Re: Weekend ‘catch-up sleep’ is a lie

#136
post #77

A recent Swedish study[1] following 43 880 people over 13 years mentions in the summary: "Possibly, long weekend sleep may compensate for short weekday sleep." [1]: https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/jsr.12712

Wow, what a contrast to this study of 36 people. Personally I feel that it's a bunch of placebo but a bunch of people I know swear by it.

Nevertheless it's much harder to convince people to do what's more efficient compared to what _feels_ better when it comes to sleep. I for one feel much better if I wake up 7am sharp every day but it doesn't not feel that way naturally.

Re: Weekend ‘catch-up sleep’ is a lie

#137
post #105
post #85

Sleep is fun, people who regularly lack it will tell you they're "just fine" but they've been lacking sleep for so long that the baseline they're comparing themselves to is already skewed. Take two weeks off, avoid alcohol and other stimulant, avoid artificial light after 8 and wake up without an alarm. You'll see how you feel after that regimen. Your body knows exactly how much sleep it needs. But that's not compati…

I dunno, maybe I’m weird, but without an alarm I can sleep 12 hours. And when I do, I feel like total shit: very tired, groggy, and a little depressed. If I sleep 5-7 hours on the otherhand, I feel much better.

I have a theory that by oversleeping too much your body goes into sort of hibernation mode and wants to preserve energy to the end of the world. On the other by sleeping little and having strict schedule you enter a type of primal survival mode, similar to if you were sleeping outside on savannah, which keeps you alert even with minimum sleep.

I had and have the problem that if I don't put alarm on, I will oversleep and my day gets kind of ruined. So for me I always have to set an alarm and if I feel tired and have nothing on morning I'll maybe bump it by an hour. For me the best sleep schedule is going to bed by 12-2 and waking up between 8:00-9:30. This way if I occasionally stay up till 3-5 my sleep rhythm won't be completely ruined.

I have experimented with various different tricks and styles, recently after a long vacation in different timezone allowed me to completely transform my sleep rhythm. After I came back I woke up automatically 6:00 sharp without any alarm, and I went to sleep 22-23 which was quite bizarre. Sadly though I enjoy late evenings much more than early mornings so even if I went to sleep 0:30 I'd wake up at 6, very tired, which led me to sleep longer and in the end ruining the rhythm.

But what I've found out is, that you want to wake up exactly during the light sleep cycle as that's when you feel no tiredness at all waking up. If you try waking up during REM or deep sleep it will feel like pulling teeth. For me the best time is somewhere around 8 if I go to sleep by 1-2 which counts up as ~7 hours. Should probably track it better but yeah. Also I bought wake-up light alarm clock which is interesting but I don't know yet has it actually an effect.

Although I have to say following an exact schedule is probably the best solution sleep-wise. Decide a time when you have to be at bed and an exact time when you have to wake up, no matter what. I think doing this during my vacation is what caused it to be so ingrained in my body that I was able to wake up at 6 without any alarm.

Re: Weekend ‘catch-up sleep’ is a lie

#138
post #8

I can’t speak for scientific analysis, but I can say that if I have had a disrupted week of sleep, a weekend catch up ‘resets’ me and serves its intended purpose (for me)

I've spent significant stretches of my life sleeping 4.5-6 hours/night on weeknights, and then 8-10 hours on weekends. It works just fine. I do drink a ton of coffee, but I'm quite alert even before my first one at 9AM, and capable of doing exercise/engaging in focused activity with zero difficulty. If I don't sleep enough on weekends though (like I have to set the alarm) I start getting jumpy and anxious though.

Re: Weekend ‘catch-up sleep’ is a lie

#139
post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dunno, maybe I’m weird, but without an alarm I can sleep 12 hours. And when I do, I feel like total shit: very tired, groggy, and a little depressed. If I sleep 5-7 hours on the otherhand, I feel much better.

See, I'm the opposite. Even without the screen time or stimulation, I will fall dead asleep at 10pm, and no matter what, will wake up promptly at 4am. I feel like there really are people who have different needs.

This. I haven't used an alarm for close to 20 years, though my cycle is closer to 12 to 6.

Re: Weekend ‘catch-up sleep’ is a lie

#140
post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Academia has had their chance Oh, so what should we go to now in order to try to expand our knowledge about this? What are you suggesting?

This is always the implicit question, and I'm guessing the answer is scientism -- material that has the form of academic product, but isn't academic. Like Jordon Peterson videos or a lot of the scientific racism stuff on Youtube. It's draped in the language of knowing, but it's purely emotional material; stuff that makes you feel good, and makes you feel smart for feeling right. (I also think the desire to drape our…

Jordan Peterson is as scientific as a social scientist gets. He cites papers and describes the work of past scientists and his premises are evidence driven. He is a professor; a professional academic.

He has his opinions, positions and motives just like anyone else, but is open about them. If anything he is a rock star lecturer that exemplifies how informative, accurate, sincere, progressive, intimate, and inspiring science can be. He helps people for a living as a psychologist and a lecturer. If he offends you then you either have issues or don't understand him or both, but he would gladly engage with you either way.

Most that disagree with him disagree with the science, which puts them in the same boat as climate change deniers, of which there are plenty voicing their alternate facts online. But their voice doesn't validate their claims. Science is not a democracy.

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