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European Parliament set to end EU-wide daylight savings

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Re: European Parliament set to end EU-wide daylight savings

#51

Post by ants_a »

henrikschroder wrote: post #22
paulsutter wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since it’s getting dark earlier after work, how does this maximize daylight outside of work? > They would like to travel to work after sunrise. They would also like to maximize the amount of daylight they get to enjoy outside of work.

Here's a pretty good graph that illustrates the concept: https://www.timeanddate.com/sun/usa/san-francisco DST ensure that sunrise is kept at around 6 in the morning, this removes the "waste" of daylight from before most people wake up, and moves it to after work hours in the summer. Here's the same graph for Stockholm: https://www.timeanddate.com/sun/sweden/stockholm There's not enough daylight in the winter to cove…

I live in the same latitude as Stockholm, and the extra hour of daylight in the afternoon is still nice in the summer, while having the sun rise one hour earlier would be more an annoyance than a benefit. We tried that, it was definitely not an improvement. I wouldn't actually mind keeping daylight savings time the whole year to reduce the time of the year when it's pitch black outside at all non-business hours.

Re: European Parliament set to end EU-wide daylight savings

#53

Post by ghaff »

paulsutter wrote: post #10
henrikschroder wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How much daylight you lose depend highly on what latitude you are living. In California, daylight savings actually makes sense, it's a noticeable boost of daylight for your office commute in the winter. In northern Europe, it makes absolutely no sense, because the darkness consumes everything anyway. It takes about a week or two for sunrise to be at the same time it was before the clock adjustment each fall. It's pre…

If “daylight savings” time is so great, why not keep it all year round? Why change at all?

The main reason is probably, especially at mid-northern latitudes (where a huge number of people live), absent DST conventional work/school hours would mean that biasing sunlight hours on the late side--which many/most people prefer in the summer--implies it would be dark when people leave their house on a winter morning. Among other things, this means kids wait for buses or go to school in the dark.

Personally, I'd be fine with shifting a time zone or two east and eliminating DST but I understand why a lot of people wouldn't.

Re: European Parliament set to end EU-wide daylight savings

#54

Post by _Microft »

All of that because of a stupid survey in which the ones who wanted to abolish daylight saving time were overrepresented because it gave them a platform while the majority who doesn't, didn't bother to make themselves heard.

That's not quite Brexit-level but maybe Swiss immigration referendum-stupidity.

Re: European Parliament set to end EU-wide daylight savings

#55

Post by SirHound »

StavrosK wrote: post #50
timthorn wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I believe the UK observes GMT (UTC±0) That's correct, with BST in the Summer. It can get confusing when working with people from different countries who aren't aware of BST and who schedule meetings explicitly in GMT, thinking that it automatically includes daylight saving.

In my experience, it gets more confusing for English people who schedule meetings in GMT in the summer and then are an hour late.

Ah that old trick

Re: European Parliament set to end EU-wide daylight savings

#56

Post by ghaff »

henrikschroder wrote: post #30
runarberg wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please don’t do that. Sleep is really important, and waking up before sunrise is potentially detrimental to overall sleep in the population.

Also do check the daylight graphs I posted in other comments, but here's an example from northern Norway: https://www.timeanddate.com/sun/norway/narvik For a month of winter, there is no daylight at all . It is literally impossible to wake up after sunrise, because sunrise doesn't happen for an entire month.

In all fairness, that's northern Norway which is not where most people live. But the general point is valid. It's mostly the northern mid-latitudes where people want to optimize the clock relative to the sun for different times of year. Further north and further south, it doesn't matter as much (for different reasons).

Re: European Parliament set to end EU-wide daylight savings

#57

Post by jackweirdy »

_Microft wrote: post #54

All of that because of a stupid survey in which the ones who wanted to abolish daylight saving time were overrepresented because it gave them a platform while the majority who doesn't, didn't bother to make themselves heard. That's not quite Brexit-level but maybe Swiss immigration referendum -stupidity.

This proposal seems to be just making a mandatory time change not mandatory any more, and leaving it up to each nation state to decide - in the case of lots of split opinions isn’t that better?

Re: European Parliament set to end EU-wide daylight savings

#58

Post by bad_user »

_Microft wrote: post #54

All of that because of a stupid survey in which the ones who wanted to abolish daylight saving time were overrepresented because it gave them a platform while the majority who doesn't, didn't bother to make themselves heard. That's not quite Brexit-level but maybe Swiss immigration referendum -stupidity.

Why do you think abolishing the daylight savings change is bad?

Personally I think it’s a super awesome move.

And note that no matter what you have against it, disrupting the sleep of billions of people twice per year has caused depression and cardiovascular issues which shouldn’t be taken lightly.

So what’s the issue in everyone switching to the summer time for the whole year?

Re: European Parliament set to end EU-wide daylight savings

#59

Post by Vinnl »

_Microft wrote: post #54

All of that because of a stupid survey in which the ones who wanted to abolish daylight saving time were overrepresented because it gave them a platform while the majority who doesn't, didn't bother to make themselves heard. That's not quite Brexit-level but maybe Swiss immigration referendum -stupidity.

The survey was also primarily filled in by Germans.

However, most regulation isn't the results of surveys in the first place. The survey might've informed it a bit, but in the end it's just lawmakers making law. It's not like there are absolutely no arguments in favour of this change, or that it's similar in scale to Brexit.

Re: European Parliament set to end EU-wide daylight savings

#60

Post by 2038AD »

function_seven wrote: post #28
2038AD wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>In California, daylight savings actually makes sense, it's a noticeable boost of daylight for your office commute in the winter. So the plan is that instead of people working hours which suit and know about it we agree on a weird collective lie and get everyone to perform the clock-adjusting ritual

> So the plan is that instead of people working hours which suit and know about it we agree on a weird collective lie and get everyone to perform the clock-adjusting ritual Well yeah. Much simpler to make the adjustment once, at an agreed upon time of year, than to have a hodgepodge of different companies, schools, retailers, bagel shops, etc. all move their hours independently. In that case you have a first-mover pr…

>Well yeah. Much simpler to make the adjustment once, at an agreed upon time of year, than to have a hodgepodge of different companies, schools, retailers, bagel shops, etc. all move their hours independently

I'm not sure it is simpler to be honest. It's normal for companies to have different starting hours. I'm just about to move to a job where my official start is half an hour later. That increases to an hour with the actual time time I currently get into work.

Even without that, daylight savings is hodgepodge with different countries starting at different times. Ironically anti-daylight-savings people would be welcoming the current news as good when it will likely just mean more countries having daylight savings but not being consistent.

>It's not a lie anymore than time zones themselves are lies

I can't really disagree.

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