Live data from Hacker News

European Parliament set to end EU-wide daylight savings

dw.com

11–20 of 266 posts

Re: European Parliament set to end EU-wide daylight savings

#11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How much daylight you lose depend highly on what latitude you are living. In California, daylight savings actually makes sense, it's a noticeable boost of daylight for your office commute in the winter. In northern Europe, it makes absolutely no sense, because the darkness consumes everything anyway. It takes about a week or two for sunrise to be at the same time it was before the clock adjustment each fall. It's pre…

If “daylight savings” time is so great, why not keep it all year round? Why change at all?

Please don’t do that. Sleep is really important, and waking up before sunrise is potentially detrimental to overall sleep in the population.

Re: European Parliament set to end EU-wide daylight savings

#12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How much daylight you lose depend highly on what latitude you are living. In California, daylight savings actually makes sense, it's a noticeable boost of daylight for your office commute in the winter. In northern Europe, it makes absolutely no sense, because the darkness consumes everything anyway. It takes about a week or two for sunrise to be at the same time it was before the clock adjustment each fall. It's pre…

If “daylight savings” time is so great, why not keep it all year round? Why change at all?

Because getting into an office when it's still dark in winter is even more depressing than having less hours of light in the evening in summer

Re: European Parliament set to end EU-wide daylight savings

#13

In before "Let's all switch to UTC to solve this problem once and for all!" Anyway, it's so weird to me that daylight savings is such a new concept, it didn't exist where I was born when I was born, but it feels like a thing that ought to have existed for a hundred years at least. And yet, despite it being so new, people are actually defending it? Mindboggling.

Whenever someone advocates for UTC being the wall clock time all over the world, I think of Jason Mendoza from The Good Place : > Anytime I had a problem and I threw a Molotov cocktail, boom! Right away, I had a different problem!

what a great quote :D

Re: European Parliament set to end EU-wide daylight savings

#14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If “daylight savings” time is so great, why not keep it all year round? Why change at all?

Because getting into an office when it's still dark in winter is even more depressing than having less hours of light in the evening in summer

[deleted]

Re: European Parliament set to end EU-wide daylight savings

#15
The graphic would seem to indicate that the UK and Portugal observe a time zone of Coordinated Universal Time (UTC±0). This is nonsense, of course; UTC is not a time zone. I believe the UK observes GMT (UTC±0) and Portugal uses Western European Time (UTC±0).

It's also worth looking up the story of why Coordinated Universal Time is abbreviated UTC and not CUT, if you haven't heard it. Time zones are great.

Re: European Parliament set to end EU-wide daylight savings

#16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How much daylight you lose depend highly on what latitude you are living. In California, daylight savings actually makes sense, it's a noticeable boost of daylight for your office commute in the winter. In northern Europe, it makes absolutely no sense, because the darkness consumes everything anyway. It takes about a week or two for sunrise to be at the same time it was before the clock adjustment each fall. It's pre…

If “daylight savings” time is so great, why not keep it all year round? Why change at all?

The rationale for daylight savings in a southern latitude like California is this:

People generally wake up, and go to work the first thing in the morning. They would like to travel to work after sunrise. They would also like to maximize the amount of daylight they get to enjoy outside of work.

This means that in the summer, all the daylight before waking up is "wasted" so you want to move solar noon forward. But if you move it too far, it'll be pitch black when people get to work in the winter, which is why you then have daylight savings to move solar noon back a bit.

If you live further south, like Hawaii, the difference in length of day between winter and summer is very small, so you can't shift solar noon around. Therefore, Hawaii doesn't do daylight savings.

If you live further north, like Sweden, the difference in length of day between winter and summer is enormous, and in the summer the sun rises at like 3 in the morning with daylight savings, and in the winter the sun rises at 10 with standard time, and the rate of daylight change around the equinoxes is huge, so the effect only lasts a week or two. It makes absolutely no sense to have daylight savings there, and the EU parliament making it not mandatory for countries is a step in the right direction, i.e. abolish the useless thing in Sweden.

Spain and the other Mediterranean countries could maybe keep it for all I care, but Spain has a weirdly skewed solar noon anyway...

Re: European Parliament set to end EU-wide daylight savings

#17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If “daylight savings” time is so great, why not keep it all year round? Why change at all?

The rationale for daylight savings in a southern latitude like California is this: People generally wake up, and go to work the first thing in the morning. They would like to travel to work after sunrise. They would also like to maximize the amount of daylight they get to enjoy outside of work. This means that in the summer, all the daylight before waking up is "wasted" so you want to move solar noon forward. But if…

Since it’s getting dark earlier after work, how does this maximize daylight outside of work?

> They would like to travel to work after sunrise. They would also like to maximize the amount of daylight they get to enjoy outside of work.

Re: European Parliament set to end EU-wide daylight savings

#18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If “daylight savings” time is so great, why not keep it all year round? Why change at all?

Please don’t do that. Sleep is really important, and waking up before sunrise is potentially detrimental to overall sleep in the population.

Yeah, uh, that doesn't work in northern Europe, or you'd have everyone asleep until 10.

On a meta note: It is always super interesting to me how fundamental people think that day length is, if they've never experienced living at different latitudes. The variations are absolutely enormous, and create very different mindsets. That said, seasonal mood disorders are very common in northern Europe for a reason.

Going to school or going to work hours before sunrise in the winter is just the way of things in northern Europe. You don't have a choice in the matter. The flipside is that having full daylight at 10 in the evening during summer is also just the way of things, and the almost non-existant night is a complete mindfuck for people used to less variations in day length.

Re: European Parliament set to end EU-wide daylight savings

#19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The rationale for daylight savings in a southern latitude like California is this: People generally wake up, and go to work the first thing in the morning. They would like to travel to work after sunrise. They would also like to maximize the amount of daylight they get to enjoy outside of work. This means that in the summer, all the daylight before waking up is "wasted" so you want to move solar noon forward. But if…

Since it’s getting dark earlier after work, how does this maximize daylight outside of work? > They would like to travel to work after sunrise. They would also like to maximize the amount of daylight they get to enjoy outside of work.

Well the seasons don't give us much wiggle room here, so the thinking is to (1) make sure the sun has risen when you set off for work. If there's extra sunlight still, then (2) let's have that after work.

In the winter, you can't have both, so you pick #1. In the summer, you have "extra" sunlight that's being wasted on the sleeping, so you shift it to after work and get #1 and #2.

Re: European Parliament set to end EU-wide daylight savings

#20
post #6

In before "Let's all switch to UTC to solve this problem once and for all!" Anyway, it's so weird to me that daylight savings is such a new concept, it didn't exist where I was born when I was born, but it feels like a thing that ought to have existed for a hundred years at least. And yet, despite it being so new, people are actually defending it? Mindboggling.

It’s mindboggling depressing to lose an hour of daylight each day for almost half a year because you’re stuck in an office at work.

Collectively bargain with your coworkers to work 8-4 instead of 9-5 then.

Nothing at all prevents workplaces from independently adopting their own biannual shift scheduling savings time if they want to. That argument against sane time that doesn't constantly change is "we don't have any power in our workplaces to see the change we want in our working conditions" and all I hear is "wouldn't it be nice if we had a union".

Post reply on HN