How badly are we being ripped off on eyewear? Former industry execs tell all • Hacker News Board

Re: How badly are we being ripped off on eyewear? Former industry execs tell all

#41

Post by Animats » Tue, Mar 05, 2019, 6:54 PM UTC

abruzzi wrote: post #22

I've always followed the normal route--I have employer provided vision insurance, I would get myself tested every two years by a optometrist that my insurance covered, and I would buy glass using the prescription from the optometrist or a glasses store supported by my insurance. I don't have anything special in my glasses--single focal, no tinting or light sensitivity, and my glasses weren't remotely stylish, and I'd…

Here's a useful program someone in the HN/YC universe could write - something that uses your computer or phone camera to measure your interpupillary distance. This is a bit tricky to do yourself with a ruler and a mirror.

Just have the user take a selfie while holding some object of known dimensions on their forehead. Like a dollar bill. Find the eyes and pupils (OpenCV can do that), find the reference object, calculate.

Then take a picture of the prescription, OCR to the numbers (which will need a really good OCR program given the handwriting of many ophthalmologists), confirm the data with the user, and take the order for new glasses. Composite a selfie with pictures of glasses so you can see them on your face.

Order from China, deliver via E-Packet, profit. Who needs Luxotica?

Re: How badly are we being ripped off on eyewear? Former industry execs tell all

#42

Post by wbracken » Tue, Mar 05, 2019, 6:54 PM UTC

jerf wrote: post #27

It's articles like this that make me wonder how much of our middle class burden comes from hidden rent seeking parasites like this. I honestly don't know. I'm not trying to imply any particular thing. I honestly wonder. These sorts of things can stack up through the layers of companies that make things. And where does this money go? What does it end up doing?

Employing people at each step in the eyewear industry. Plus, employing people at companies who support the eyewear industry. Plus, employing people at companies that support the companies that support the eyewear industry...etc. etc.

Re: How badly are we being ripped off on eyewear? Former industry execs tell all

#43

Post by caymanjim » Tue, Mar 05, 2019, 6:54 PM UTC

Lens Crafters charges a huge markup if you want their lenses put into your own frames. It's almost cheaper to buy new frames from them (and in the case of particularly-expensive lenses, it is in fact cheaper to buy new frames). That's clearly a scam.

Warby Parker sells glasses at more reasonable prices, but their frames are god-awful hideous tortoiseshell plastic abominations. If you want nice metal frames, they have a small selection, and the prices aren't that great.

I normally buy two pairs of glasses at once (one for distance, one computer-specific). I'll probably soon start buying a third pair, progressive bifocals. I'm now wondering at what point it will literally be cheaper to fly overseas to get them made. I may in fact have already crossed that line.

The only reason I ever use Lens Crafters is when I need glasses same-day due to an emergency. Just last month, I broke my glasses a few days before an extended overseas trip. If I hadn't been going to the Cayman Islands (where everything is more expensive), I'd have waited until arrival to get them made.

It's unfortunate that most optometrists have a two-week turnaround on new glasses. For all I know, they're going through the same Luxottica monopoly too, but at least I avoid Lens Crafters. Their quality is absolute shit; poorly-ground lenses, shitty coatings that scratch easily and bubble up. It's probably intentional, so that you're forced to return less than a year later for new glasses.

I've heard good things about Costco, but I don't have access to one.

Re: How badly are we being ripped off on eyewear? Former industry execs tell all

#44

Post by cazum » Tue, Mar 05, 2019, 6:55 PM UTC

eberkund wrote: post #33

jerf wrote: post #27

It's articles like this that make me wonder how much of our middle class burden comes from hidden rent seeking parasites like this. I honestly don't know. I'm not trying to imply any particular thing. I honestly wonder. These sorts of things can stack up through the layers of companies that make things. And where does this money go? What does it end up doing?

> And where does this money go? What does it end up doing? Some of it goes to providing jobs to those same middle class people.

There are plenty of examples where rising profits in an industry have led to workforce downsizing, not job creation.

Is there any data to show that these excessive eyewear profits are being used to create new jobs?

Re: How badly are we being ripped off on eyewear? Former industry execs tell all

#45

Post by resters » Tue, Mar 05, 2019, 6:55 PM UTC

I just bought a pair of glasses from the local optometrist. Lenses and frames came to $650. It turns out the eye exam was done so hastily that I ended up with the wrong prescription.

So when I went to a different place to have the exam redone I decided to try some discount glasses. I found a pair for $27 with free lenses. I sprung for the $12 expedited shipping and have been very pleased. The online store I used was GlassesUSA.com, which I believe ships directly from Thailand.

Re: How badly are we being ripped off on eyewear? Former industry execs tell all

#46

Post by glitchc » Tue, Mar 05, 2019, 6:55 PM UTC

I respectfully must disagree with all of the claims here regarding zenni and costco, unpopular as it may be. They are only comparable at the low end but have no matching product at the high end. I bought a pair of glasses at costco for $200 as a backup to my daily rimless wearers. First, costco and zenni don’t have any rimless options. Second, the lenses I did buy ( partial frame) were their lightest but still significantly heavier than what I replaced. Third, the lenses just didn’t have the same clarity and sharpness as my oakleys. They just don’t offer the same quality coatings and I paid for their best. After a couple of months, I caved and went back to lenscrafters for a replacement. My new Ray Bans, although expensive, are like night and day compared to Costco. Light as a feather, outstanding clarity and sharpness, extremely scratch resistant, on the whole simply remarkable to wear. Side by side comparison, exact same prescription, there’s no contest. None.

Luxottica may be overcharging, but truth is the discount brands do not carry a comparable product. Certainly you can save money at those places, but the product isn’t the same. In some sense you are getting what you pay for. You can get even better lenses from Zeiss and Nikon if you go beyond Lenscrafters, but I haven’t walked that path yet as it’s a bit beyond my budget (read: insurance), although I’ve heard excellent things.

Edit: Grammar.

Re: How badly are we being ripped off on eyewear? Former industry execs tell all

#47

Post by ams6110 » Tue, Mar 05, 2019, 6:56 PM UTC

I think a big part of this is, like health care, insurance hiding the true cost from consumers.

I have a vision plan as a benefit from my job. Covers exams and eyeware, so I have never paid more than a small co-pay for glasses and I had no idea what the cost was behind the scenes.

The insurers don't care as they just pass the cost along to the employers who pay for the policies. The employers don't know any better.

This is a case of market pressure on prices being totally eliminated by layers of bureaucracy and obfuscation.

Re: How badly are we being ripped off on eyewear? Former industry execs tell all

#48

Post by wbracken » Tue, Mar 05, 2019, 6:56 PM UTC

bigdubs wrote: post #37

eberkund wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And where does this money go? What does it end up doing? Some of it goes to providing jobs to those same middle class people.

The share of incomes from private businesses (especially luxury businesses) isn't flat and benefits mostly the executives and directors and shareholders.

How can you say that? Luxottica employs 85,000 people. Do those people obtain no benefit from employment?

Re: How badly are we being ripped off on eyewear? Former industry execs tell all

#49

Post by Someone1234 » Tue, Mar 05, 2019, 6:56 PM UTC

wbracken wrote: post #42

jerf wrote: post #27

It's articles like this that make me wonder how much of our middle class burden comes from hidden rent seeking parasites like this. I honestly don't know. I'm not trying to imply any particular thing. I honestly wonder. These sorts of things can stack up through the layers of companies that make things. And where does this money go? What does it end up doing?

Employing people at each step in the eyewear industry. Plus, employing people at companies who support the eyewear industry. Plus, employing people at companies that support the companies that support the eyewear industry...etc. etc.

Why would any of these jobs be lost in a more competitive eyewear industry? People keep repeating this talking point, but I don't understand what they mean.

Nobody is asking for the eyewear industry to stop existing. We're talking about a single monopoly controlling the majority and driving up prices.

How does an artificially high price and artificially low competition generate more jobs?

Re: How badly are we being ripped off on eyewear? Former industry execs tell all

#50

Post by derefr » Tue, Mar 05, 2019, 6:56 PM UTC

abruzzi wrote: post #22

I've always followed the normal route--I have employer provided vision insurance, I would get myself tested every two years by a optometrist that my insurance covered, and I would buy glass using the prescription from the optometrist or a glasses store supported by my insurance. I don't have anything special in my glasses--single focal, no tinting or light sensitivity, and my glasses weren't remotely stylish, and I'd…

> Something I've always felt was weird--its not like prescription drugs

Perhaps they can get reimbursed by your insurance provider (without co-pay, so you don't necessarily even know about it) and/or the government, when they make glasses according to a prescription, in a way that they don't when they make them 100% for retail?