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Ask HN: DevOps Career Advice for an Oldy

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Ask HN: DevOps Career Advice for an Oldy

#1
Hello,

I'm a late 30's devops / SRE guy who previously worked as a sysadmin in financial services. Suddenly, the jobs in my area seem to ask for only 5 years of experience of Python, AWS, Kubernetes, Docker and CICD, my salary demands are too high and I'm being interviewed by people in their 20's who think I'm an idiot. I'm struggling with the whole process I have several paths and I was hoping you could pick what YOU would do:

A) Continue learning more Python - I'm good but I don't know the math and sorting questions I'm getting asked. Continue with AWS. Take a lower-paying job with folks 15 years younger just so I can pick up Docker, Kubernetes, etc. That's a 30-40K pay decrease in New York.

Downside: I have grey hair and I think I'm competing with cheaper people.

B) Go independent contractor. I have done this but I am very bad with marketing myself, and my network isn't wide enough to score jobs, so I'm stuck with recruiters. I like this the most but I'm also struggling.

Downside: Everything else is perfect, but my marketing skills are 0 after all these years.

C) Go management. I've already been a manager on the infra side. I shied away in future roles thinking I preferred hands-on (even though I got accolades as a people person and a well-organized improver of infrastructure).

Downside: Narrow job listings to choose from, also weak at marketing.

What would you do and why?

Re: Ask HN: DevOps Career Advice for an Oldy

#2
If you have time, learn more python, aws, kubenertes, etc.

Then showcase you are deeply familiar with these technologies. If you already have yrs of production level experience with configuring + managing VMs, kubenertes isn't tooooo much more complicated after you know basics of docker.

And if you aren't familiar with Docker, it is is something an experienced dev should be able to read about + toy with and feel pretty comfortable in in a few weeks.

Then once you feel confident in that all these tools are just all have analogies to the tools you're working with, showcase those analogies in your interviews and you should be good (e.g. "I haven't used kubernetes, but I have worked on tooling to deploy applications on VMs")

Re: Ask HN: DevOps Career Advice for an Oldy

#3
I have a few questions to ask you, which will hopefully help you find a more satisfying answer to your conundrum.

1) What is motivating this change? Are you currently unemployed, looking for new work or rather concerned about ensuring your employability over time? Are you looking to earn a higher salary?

2) In an ideal world, would you want to learn this new technology or would you rather stick with building your existing skills / working with tools you are familiar with? Are you willing / interested in learning these tools outside of work, or would do you have other engagements that take precedence (family, non tech hobbies, etc).

3) How much risk are you willing tolerate? Do you have a big enough safety net if the independent contractor thing doesn't work? Maybe plan out this scenario on paper, and do some rough math if possible.

4) You are well within your right to avoid management roles (or anything that doesn't serve you). What are your goals with work, pay the bills even if the work is tedious, emotionally challenging?

My apologies if these questions aren't helpful for you. I'm just yet another obnoxious 20 something in tech.

Re: Ask HN: DevOps Career Advice for an Oldy

#4
Similar question, I'm a developer in his early 30s, also in nyc. I'm finding I don't particularly like management, though I seem to be decently good at it. However, posts like the above seem to be what I'm seeing in the market, and I'm starting to wonder if I need to transition as well in order to stay viable long term? I think I would rather go back to a team lead or even senior developer position, but I don't want to end up writing a post like OP's above in 5+ years?

Re: Ask HN: DevOps Career Advice for an Oldy

#5
Also late 30s, moved from DevOps to security. I went from ~$15k below DevOps national market rate to very roughly double that in a few weeks changing roles. I highly recommend the transition for all ops/infra/devops folks. The market for security engineers and architects is on fire right now.

Businesses want DevOps, no one wants to pay for it (as you point out, "Take a lower-paying job with folks 15 years younger just so I can pick up Docker, Kubernetes, etc. That's a 30-40K pay decrease in New York."). The market has spoken, go where the dollars are (and the on-call rotation and fire drills aren't). Get paid for what you know, not selling each hour of writing code or infrastructure via DSL and the PagerDuty rotation.

OP: I'm happy to connect you with some NY specific recruiters for the job type I mention.

Re: Ask HN: DevOps Career Advice for an Oldy

#6
Are you currently in a situation where you immediately need to find another job? Can you spend a few months learning AWS, Python, etc?

What tools are you using in your current devops position?

What type of jobs are asking math and sorting questions to a devops person? Also maybe find an algorithms book and brush up on those skills.

And maybe spend a few hours a week working on creating some sort of environment on AWS that demonstrates your ability to use the tools that are in-demand. You could probably even have that as a portfolio item to show off during your next interview.

I don't think you need to take a lower-paying job for a few years just to pick up those tools. Going through a couple of books should be all that it takes especially if you're already in a devops position.

Re: Ask HN: DevOps Career Advice for an Oldy

#8
To me it seems like you've hit a point in your career where you need to learn some new skills. That doesn't mean your old skills are now worthless, it means you need to learn some new ones to go with them.

I'm younger than you (25), but I already flip-flop between higher paid jobs that use the skills I already have, and slightly less well paid ones that give me the opportunity to learn new skills. I figure that's just the price of staying competitive in the job market.

I come from more of a dev background, and I've looked into learning devops stuff. I think you'll find that your more traditional ops background transfers quite well to the new cloud environments. There's definitely a whole load of stuff around networking and stuff like that that I have no clue about.

I suspect if you put a bit of effort (a month or two even) into learning the new shiny AWS/kubernetes/whatever stuff, then you'll suddenly go from someone who sounds like they don't know anything (because you don't know the acronyms, etc), to a someone who can impress everyone because their knowledge of the new shiny stuff is backed by years of experience in a similar domain that most people don't have.

Re: Ask HN: DevOps Career Advice for an Oldy

#9
wow you sound just like me a year ago. late 30s, had to job transition, and found the tech stack had wildly changed from what I was used to. I'm full stack, but with a focus on backend, so I do a lot of sysop stuff. kubernetes and docker was everywhere, and all these new deploy tools I've never heard of. since when did "automation" (CICD) become its own thing??

anyway, my advice: don't settle. you are a senior. find a job that is willing to accept you as a senior and acknowledge your ability to learn quickly and adapt. demand a high salary (higher than what you're making now) with confidence.

it may take you a couple months to get up to speed, but you have seen it all before. you know what to look out for. you can smell the bullshit out there and you are responsible enough to have autonomy. you don't get this with newbies. this is what a company is really paying you for.

in the meantime, start building environments using these tools you are unfamiliar with. show you have initiative and can talk about these tools for when you get interviews. it may take a month or two until you find the right job. it's hard, but be patient.

as for management, well that's up to you. I tried it once and sucked at it, so I'm fine just being an engineer :) p.s. also check out terraform

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