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Apple’s 2018 MacBook Pros Attempt to Solve Flexgate, Without Admitting It Exists

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Re: Apple’s 2018 MacBook Pros Attempt to Solve Flexgate, Without Admitting It Exists

#131

Post by MarHoff »

vardump wrote: post #42
stunt wrote: post #6

There are many examples of Apple never admitting design issues! Beside what they are doing with their reputation and customers loyalty, I’m wondering how is it going to affect their engineering culture within the company itself. They are very biased with their strategies in everything and they hardly change them. Same situation Microsoft was in some years ago.

I don't know about others, but I don't dare to buy Apple products anymore. My 2012 MacBook Pro is still going strong, but newer MacBooks don't have anywhere near the same build quality and durability. When you have an issue, and complain about it or even ask advice what to do, I've often encountered toxic behavior from Apple fans. Denying the problem's existence and such. The problem is of course what to heck to buy.…

The thing is I have the "hellishly flawed MBP 2016", I carry it daily into my messenger bag over bike/train/feet (often running to catch train) in a separate pocket but without other protection. It fell on the floor once from table height with lid open and ended up with a very small scratch on the corner but totally ok otherwise (and it was totally my fault).

Everything is perfectible but to say it's not a good and resilient design as compared to other laptops is just non-sense. Nothing is 100% fail-proof we must be realistic.

I had issues with apple products, but nothing so bad that a visit at a genius bar couldn't solve in a reasonable manner. Yet I will loose trust the day they let me down in an intolerable way, but surely not based on hearsay's from the web.

Re: Apple’s 2018 MacBook Pros Attempt to Solve Flexgate, Without Admitting It Exists

#132

Post by rasz »

andr wrote: post #53
stunt wrote: post #6

There are many examples of Apple never admitting design issues! Beside what they are doing with their reputation and customers loyalty, I’m wondering how is it going to affect their engineering culture within the company itself. They are very biased with their strategies in everything and they hardly change them. Same situation Microsoft was in some years ago.

On the flipside, Apple has a lot more data on what components fail than we do. They can detect issues before they become a "-gate" and I imagine slight improvements like this one happen fairly often. Which, I'd say, is a good engineering practice and culture.

improvements like shimming known weak BGA solder joint with a piece of shoe rubber https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XaGHcBZjmWA

also https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUaJ8pDlxi8

Re: Apple’s 2018 MacBook Pros Attempt to Solve Flexgate, Without Admitting It Exists

#133

Post by friendzis »

adrianN wrote: post #33
zuron7 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, I do know a few (mid-size) companies who tend to replace the entire system, then send the faulty piece back to a centralized repair facility which repairs the boards, and then they're used to repair another faulty piece. Don't know whether the large companies do this though.

The repairs at the central facility would be much more efficient if the repairable unit was a cable instead of half the machine.

The repairs at central facility have fixed costs (shipping the device, tracking, paperwork), the not-repairs at customer center have fixed costs too. Carrying out simple repairs on site would be much more more efficient if they could be done on site. There is (albeit not trivially measurable) opportunity cost associated with customer inability to drop device for few hours and have it repaired.

Of course there is a delicate balance between various costs (design, manufacturing, repair, lost product upgrade sales, lost overall sales) and increased repairability may mean decreased profits, but I am arguing the main point.

Re: Apple’s 2018 MacBook Pros Attempt to Solve Flexgate, Without Admitting It Exists

#134

Post by nickflood »

MarHoff wrote: post #131
vardump wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know about others, but I don't dare to buy Apple products anymore. My 2012 MacBook Pro is still going strong, but newer MacBooks don't have anywhere near the same build quality and durability. When you have an issue, and complain about it or even ask advice what to do, I've often encountered toxic behavior from Apple fans. Denying the problem's existence and such. The problem is of course what to heck to buy.…

The thing is I have the "hellishly flawed MBP 2016", I carry it daily into my messenger bag over bike/train/feet (often running to catch train) in a separate pocket but without other protection. It fell on the floor once from table height with lid open and ended up with a very small scratch on the corner but totally ok otherwise (and it was totally my fault). Everything is perfectible but to say it's not a good and r…

I've got a couple of friends who are Apple fans - iPhone, iPad, MacBook, Apple Watch, full loadout. Once the time came to upgrade their MacBook Airs the question was whether to go with a Windows laptop to avoid keyboard issues, or risk it. Both decided to risk it, being Apple fans. And cause we don't know how big of a percentage of people are affected by the keyboard issues. I advised them to go with Apple. They got a 13" 2017 MBP and a 15" 2018 MBP. Now the 2017 MBP had only one keyboard failure which was fixed free of charge. The 2018 on the other hand had two keyboard failures (broken key and several keys permanently pressed), and shortly after the second keyboard failure the laptop stopped turning on.

My point is, when buying those laptops, you do take a risk on whether your use case and your individual unit is going to experience issues. This was all hypothetical to me as well, until my friends paid their money to find out whether it was real or not.

Re: Apple’s 2018 MacBook Pros Attempt to Solve Flexgate, Without Admitting It Exists

#135

Post by nickflood »

9935c101ab17a66 wrote: post #127
2muchcoffeeman wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or they could just use standard parts and make their machines more repairable. I recently upgraded my MacMini Server 2012 with max ram and SSDs. My Air is still going strong, so this may be the last time I get a Mac. Which is too bad. Their older machines were really really nice. The new ones are kinda shit. Had they just kept releasing the same models with upgraded specs and none of the crazy price increases and imp…

What exactly is a "standard" part in high-end portable computer manufacturing?

An M.2 SSD, like a Samsung 970 Pro. Or a SODIMM RAM stick. Or an M.2 Wi-Fi adapter.

While you're at it you can also screw the battery in instead of gluing it in place. Or screw the keyboard in instead of riveting it in place.

All of this is a reality in my Dell XPS 15. Keyboard is screwed in with 20-something tiny screws, it's firmly in place and it makes keyboard replacement a $20 affair that you can even do yourself should a bad day happen when you bump your drink onto it. The battery can be freshened up as well should you keep your laptop for more than a couple of years while using it daily, and it costs $80. Should your laptop fail completely you can salvage the data from it just by plugging the drive into another laptop or desktop (Apple removed a "lifeboat" connector from their 2018 MBP for example, not much was occupying its space though), you can upgrade the RAM fad down the line if your use case changer or OS becomes more demanding. Etc.

This is already possible and is happening right now, so Apple doing the Apple thing is not excusable by their laptops being thin or light, or portable or whatever.

Re: Apple’s 2018 MacBook Pros Attempt to Solve Flexgate, Without Admitting It Exists

#136

Post by devwastaken »

azinman2 wrote: post #75
sametmax wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It makes you wonder how much of the privacy features are a marketing act too.

I can assure you the message is consistent internally with action. It’s not just marketing. Disclosure: I work for Apple.

Do you have an example of that action? Environmental problems start overwhelmingly at consumerism. Apple is releasing new devices every two years. These devices purposefully made to not be repaired, and apple certainly spends a lot of money into advertising.

That's no different from other companies, but apple is lying about it.

Re: Apple’s 2018 MacBook Pros Attempt to Solve Flexgate, Without Admitting It Exists

#137

Post by CaptainZapp »

oblio wrote: post #105
shinryuu wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is Apple so resistant to making repairable products? What is the obsessiveness with making ever thinner products? I remember starting a job 2014 and choosing a macbook 2012, because of the macbook 2012 being more repairable. It seems to have served me well. Still using it, might consider upgrading to macbook 2015. But won't go beyond that before I hear from others that the current hardware issues have been resolv…

> Why is Apple so resistant to making repairable products? What is the obsessiveness with making ever thinner products? I think the two are not connected. I think that they don't really care that much about repairable products, despite what they say, even internally, because as Upton Sinclair said: > “It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends upon his not understanding it!” Regardi…

Random example from the present day: smartphones are becoming thinner and thinner.

Yeah, and in order to do that they ditched the universally used 3.5mm jack.

This is a killer argument for me never to buy an iPhone. At least not one of their recent models.

Re: Apple’s 2018 MacBook Pros Attempt to Solve Flexgate, Without Admitting It Exists

#138

Post by CoolGuySteve »

devwastaken wrote: post #36
CoolGuySteve wrote: post #12

A bigger problem imo is the $700 display replacement. I have a similar problem with my wife’s broken MacBook, where replacing the display costs almost as much as the computer itself. The problem with the MacBook is that the display is bonded to the glass and the aluminum back so that you have to replace the entire top assembly to fix the display. It’s even more depressing to know that the ribbon connecting the displa…

Yep, Louis rossman, a popular apple repair guy on YouTube talks similiar about this a lot. The overwhelming majority of problems are fixable for 10 minutes or less and less than a dollar in components. But apple will just tell you to buy a new board and purposefully makes it harder for repair. The whole 'sustainability' is a marketing act.

Actually I’m in NYC and the $600 quote I got for replacing the display is from Louis himself.

It was designed to be thrown out.

Re: Apple’s 2018 MacBook Pros Attempt to Solve Flexgate, Without Admitting It Exists

#139

Post by willtim »

csomar wrote: post #92
skilled wrote: post #9

I have owned 3 Macbooks so far. And all 3 have had one of the speakers break. Am I just that unlucky? Oh and yeah, what a diarrhea of a keyboard in the 2016 edition.

I wonder about that too. My experience with Macbooks has been solid (vs. other laptops). I even spilled water (a full cup) on one of them and it only needed a Wifi card change.

Well my ThinkPad actually has drainage channels and holes to protect it against liquid spillage. It's also far more repairable and modular. With Apple's obsession with thinness and the corresponding sales, I actually fear for the future of all function-over-form laptops.

Re: Apple’s 2018 MacBook Pros Attempt to Solve Flexgate, Without Admitting It Exists

#140

Post by fzzzy »

fphhotchips wrote: post #128
blhack wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope USB-C (the connector at least) never becomes the standard. I have a MBP with these god awful ports and it's really frustrating how bad the connector is. There are DJs for whom the macbook pro is required equipment for their performances. They're performing in front of 10s and sometimes >100 thousand people. Their midi controllers, and their SOUND CARDS (really a DJ mixer, most likely) are connected by: USB A.…

I have exactly the opposite experience. I find that USB-A connectors tend to become loose over time, and eventually a mild bump is enough that the device disconnects (even though it looks like it's still 100% plugged in). No such issues with USB-C yet.

I have never seen a USB-A connector become loose. It's been over 20 years. The USB-C connector on my 2016 touchbar was loose within months.
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