Volvo is introducing a 112mph speed limiter to all its new cars • Hacker News Board

Re: Volvo is introducing a 112mph speed limiter to all its new cars

#241

Post by grkvlt » Tue, Mar 05, 2019, 2:05 AM UTC

gerbilly wrote: post #200

jbob2000 wrote: post #25

I've always wondered why the government sets speed limits but then doesn't enforce them on manufacturers. You can solve 99% of speed "crime" by making it illegal to sell a car that can break the speed limit.

> I've always wondered why the government sets speed limits but then doesn't enforce them on manufacturers. They hope you will break the speed limit so they can make money, that's why.

This is a strange thing to believe - fines exist for deterrence, not income - the purpose of a fine has failed if it ends up being paid, since it didn't deter the offender!

In the UK, for example, about GBP 80 million in speeding fines are issued each year. The annual police budget is GBP 12.5 billion though, so fines are a tiny 0.64% of that, hardly significant. Having said that, it looks like the road policing budget for 2018-19 is down by a large amount, from the GBP 200 million in 2016, to about GBP 90 million, so the fines would seem to cover most of that... Not sure what to make of that, now?

Re: Volvo is introducing a 112mph speed limiter to all its new cars

#242

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Mar 05, 2019, 2:09 AM UTC

chasingthewind wrote: post #5

There is no circumstances under which a maximum speed of 112 would bother me. I drive a Honda Fit. I don't think I have ever driven it over 85 miles per hour (137km/hr). I'm not comfortable driving faster than that. What makes me mad is that my speedometer goes up to 140mph! Why?! The only answer I've ever seen that makes sense is that it's a marketing tool, but who honestly buys a Honda Fit and thinks to themselves…

[deleted]

Re: Volvo is introducing a 112mph speed limiter to all its new cars

#243

Post by tgsovlerkhgsel » Tue, Mar 05, 2019, 2:28 AM UTC

vvillena wrote: post #33

SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So why THAT limit?

It's reasonable enough to make any higher limit unreasonable, while still being high enough for fast drivers. German cars are usually limited to 250 km/h. With this new, still high limit from Volvo, the German manufacturers now have to justify why their own limit is so high.

"Because the customers want that, and won't buy a car that is limited that low, possibly out of principle."

And good luck getting politicians to push them to do otherwise.

Re: Volvo is introducing a 112mph speed limiter to all its new cars

#244

Post by heelix » Tue, Mar 05, 2019, 3:07 AM UTC

LyndsySimon wrote: post #43

SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #3

Is there any particular reasoning as to that value? If we assume major highway limits of 70 mph and add an excessive 20-30 mph for passing, that's still a ton of extra lethal kinetic energy. edit: Apparently even the Autobahn has a recommended speed of 80 mph (I'm aware you can go faster, but then why have a limit at all?)

As I mentioned in another comment, tires with an "S" speed rating go to 112 MPH, while tires with an "H" rating go to 130 MPH. I'm guessing they either downgraded the factory tires or were concerned about lawsuits from owners who installed aftermarket "S" rated tires.

I've got an old Porsche 996 S4, and I can't say it is a fast car. (fun around the corners, but not fast). I had V rated tires which were rated for 150mph. Not silly expensive either for that matter. I've never driven fast enough to need those tires (or even H rated for that matter) but it would irritate me to no end to know the limiter was there.

Re: Volvo is introducing a 112mph speed limiter to all its new cars

#245

Post by georgebarnett » Tue, Mar 05, 2019, 4:02 AM UTC

PostOnce wrote: post #235

georgebarnett wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find this argument rediculous. We should not allow a huge negative behaviour every single day, just on the off chance that there’s a possibility it would restrict us in a very unusual event. Hundreds of people should die because maybe we can save a few? Makes no sense.

How many auto fatalities are a result of people driving 150? Almost none, I'd wager. So then is my argument still ridiculous? Freedom has value. Just because we can force some people to do some things more safely in some cases doesn't mean we should always do it. Otherwise, we can just outlaw cars entirely and force everyone to only go places where rails take them at government-approved speeds.

Fortunately, somebody has actually studied this and has found that yes, speed does matter:

"In Rheinland-Pfalz, a 130 km speed limit was also introduced on a 167km section of the A61 in 1991 and has been retained since then. This measure was combined with a ban on overtaking for heavy good vehicles. The impact of these two measures was a 30% reduction in fatal and severe injury accidents (comparing one year after and one year before their introduction – Rheinland-Pfalz Ministry of Transport)."

https://etsc.eu/wp-content/uploads/Speed_Fact_Sheet_1.pdf

Re: Volvo is introducing a 112mph speed limiter to all its new cars

#246

Post by 013a » Tue, Mar 05, 2019, 4:11 AM UTC

dcwca wrote: post #238

013a wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think my broader point is really that, as assistive tech continues to increase in reliability and deployment breadth, Speed is something we as a society should consider raising. German cars are feel AMAZING at high speeds. They're not the only ones, but dollar for dollar its easier to take a German car to 120 than any other nationality. Why? Because they're made to be driven on the Autobahn. They are, all else equa…

I think your whole premise here is, North American speed limits would go up if only we had enough cars that felt good at higher speeds? If so, I don't think automotive performance and lack of "smooth feel" at high speed are the things governing our speed limits.

No; my premise is that the smoothness and reliability at high speeds is the result of an environment which put demands on German auto manufacturers to develop cars which could handle the high speeds. Volvo is artificially creating an internal environment of lower speeds, which means their technology, hardware and software, won't be designed or at least optimized to work at high speeds. Moreover, they're asserting to the public that slower speeds are safer, which is generally true but also regressive and a vast over-simplification of the situation.

We should be celebrating companies which push the limits of assistive technology to make high speeds safer; this can only be done by companies who optimize around high speeds and have cars on the road gathering data at high speed. This conclusion is evidenced by the fact that similarly priced German and Japanese/American cars drive totally differently at high speeds, because German cars are designed to run at high speeds. The environment and corporate policy matters, a lot.

The reason our speed limits in America are generally low isn't really because of road feel or reliability at speed or any of that. Its more complex. But one step in a positive direction is definitely having more cars on the road with companies behind them who say "the cameras on this thing? they can detect a stopped car 300 meters out and take progressive action without any human intervention." Over time, we might see change. Or not. But that's a necessary factor.

On the other hand, Volvo is saying "don't drive faster than 112mph! that's dangerous, no one should ever do that and we'll never support it on our consumer cars" which is regressive. We can do better; we just need people and companies to Want to.

Re: Volvo is introducing a 112mph speed limiter to all its new cars

#247

Post by acrooks » Tue, Mar 05, 2019, 4:18 AM UTC

Shorel wrote: post #74

I would love if all cars had a cruise speed mode where I could say, I want the top speed to be 60, and it never goes faster. The difference here is that I would choose this speed, instead of it being set only by the manufacturer. It is also OK if the car had both limits, a manufacturer max and a lower max speed configurable by the driver.

This is available on cars manufactured by Holden - I rented one a few weeks ago and it let me set a maximum speed on the cruise control.

I actually found this to be far more intuitive than cruise control with a minimum speed, because I just kept my foot constantly depressed on the accelerator, and the car never went above the maximum. But when I needed to slow down slightly, e.g., for a car in front of me, I could lift off the pedal and let the car natually slow down.

Conversely with minimum speed cruise control it always feels to me as if I'm zooming along and constantly need to disable it/etc.

Re: Volvo is introducing a 112mph speed limiter to all its new cars

#248

Post by Matthias247 » Tue, Mar 05, 2019, 4:31 AM UTC

SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #3

Is there any particular reasoning as to that value? If we assume major highway limits of 70 mph and add an excessive 20-30 mph for passing, that's still a ton of extra lethal kinetic energy. edit: Apparently even the Autobahn has a recommended speed of 80 mph (I'm aware you can go faster, but then why have a limit at all?)

As a german:

- A speed limit of 140km/h would be fine for me, although sometimes disappointing when the road is really empty and there's a lot of distance to cover.

- A speed limit of 160km/h would be totally fine for me. Around that +-10km/h is somewhere around the limit that I find comfortable on the Autobahn.

- A limit of 180km/h probably also satisfies most of the other customers, and might be the sweet spot between still being very fast and not losing a lot of customers that would want to go even faster.

Re: Volvo is introducing a 112mph speed limiter to all its new cars

#249

Post by henvic » Tue, Mar 05, 2019, 4:38 AM UTC

jacquesm wrote: post #111

henvic wrote: post #105

If I were automaker I'd consider allowing bursts above the maximum speed limit for a few seconds. I'm not a fan of limiting (besides for warranty, electronics reasons) and prefer to educate rather than restrict. However, if taking this approach I believe you should consider that some people might drive in the limit and they deserve to be in power of their vehicles regardless. Imagine if you drive near this software-l…

In all of my 32 years of driving and over many many miles I've had exactly one situation where acceleration helped me avoid an accident and it wasn't anywhere near the local speed limit. On the way to visiting another HN user I was about to turn left and looking into the low sun waiting for a vehicle that was barely visible to pass. Then I moved across the lane and another vehicle appeared quite close behind the prev…

Regarding sudden acceleration (and it's a good time to remember acceleration isn't speed) avoiding accidents...

I live in Brazil. There is a tax supposed to cause road accidents here. If your powertrain is > 1.0, the tax you pay when buying cars has a sudden increase. Therefore, many if not most people buy 1.0 cars here (). This is valid even for some that are not consider lower end here (though would be anywhere else in the civilized world).

It's actually the most common type of crash on highways here: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3907522/

Anyways, one great reason of accidents here is frontal collisions. People either don't take into account that they are driving snails, not cars, and try to take over on the road but fail to do so at an adequate distance.

The thing is if you are at, say, 80km/h it gets really hard to increase your speed 5 or 10km/h in short amount of time. I believe that people driving powerful cars don't think about this often, and all it takes is an idiot to tailgate you while you are trying to take over to make shit happens. Another unfortunate thing is that you might find yourself tailgating the vehicle upfront before taking over it to reduce the needed distance.

* highways here are usually one lane each way most times. Sometimes two. I love when I go to southern California for work, and there are 12 lanes with almost no traffic (yes, traffic here is worse than there).

https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/policyinformation/tables/01.pdf

Re: Volvo is introducing a 112mph speed limiter to all its new cars

#250

Post by henvic » Tue, Mar 05, 2019, 4:39 AM UTC

moonbug wrote: post #128

tristor wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meanwhile, I find that acceleration has helped me to avoid accidents numerous times in my ~17 years driving. Everybody has different experiences.

Then you're probably a much worse driver than you think you are. Sorry.

He told acceleration, not speed. Maybe his reflexes are just good.