Let’s Destroy Robocalls • Hacker News Board

Re: Let’s Destroy Robocalls

#201

Post by MBCook » Mon, Mar 04, 2019, 8:46 PM UTC

Leace wrote: post #182

atombender wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whitelisting is problematic because there are so many cases where it's impractical or impossible to add a contact first: Doctor's office calling to confirm your appointment; restaurant confirming a seat reservation; delivery guy is outside and can't find your doorbell; Lyft/Uber/whatever is nearby and is looking for you; pharmacy calling to inform about a prescription being ready; some store calling to inform that yo…

> Doctor's office calling to confirm your appointment; restaurant confirming a seat reservation; delivery guy is outside and can't find your doorbell; Lyft/Uber/whatever is nearby and is looking for you; pharmacy calling to inform about a prescription being ready; some store calling to inform that your order is ready to be picked up; insurance company calling about some claim; etc. The problem is phone number that is…

That sounds like a huge hassle, which would probably make it a no-go.

Re: Let’s Destroy Robocalls

#202

Post by WillPostForFood » Mon, Mar 04, 2019, 8:48 PM UTC

bloopernova wrote: post #144

nonbel wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It never made much sense to me that the providers would not offer some kind of robocall-free plan. I would instantly switch to avoid getting any more of these spoofed calls, which would block the vast majority of robocalls. It turns out that it is government regulation somehow preventing this: > "The FCC last year authorized voice service providers to block more types of calls in which the Caller ID has been spoofed…

I pay t-mobile $4/month for their advanced spam-call blocking feature, and it works very well. I now get maybe 1 spam call every 2 weeks, compared against my worthless work number that has no such blocking which gets maybe 6 spam calls a day.

I was using t-mobiles free tier scam call blocker, which worked pretty well except it also blocked calls from Twilio, including our downtime alerts. So I unfortunately had to disable it.

Re: Let’s Destroy Robocalls

#203

Post by vict00ms » Mon, Mar 04, 2019, 8:49 PM UTC

angel_j wrote: post #181

SlowRobotAhead wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds good. Would you mind getting in touch with my mom to explain that system to her? THANKS!

> Would you mind getting in touch with my mom to explain that system to her? I am your mom, robothead! this is your mother, honey!! don't @ me in these ignorant shit-posts of yours, please. love, mommy

It was a vapid response but a sincere criticism: your proposed system is too complex for a layperson.

Re: Let’s Destroy Robocalls

#204

Post by amelius » Mon, Mar 04, 2019, 8:49 PM UTC

MBCook wrote: post #201

Leace wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Doctor's office calling to confirm your appointment; restaurant confirming a seat reservation; delivery guy is outside and can't find your doorbell; Lyft/Uber/whatever is nearby and is looking for you; pharmacy calling to inform about a prescription being ready; some store calling to inform that your order is ready to be picked up; insurance company calling about some claim; etc. The problem is phone number that is…

That sounds like a huge hassle, which would probably make it a no-go.

Yes, it sounds like how PGP failed.

Re: Let’s Destroy Robocalls

#205

Post by chaostheory » Mon, Mar 04, 2019, 8:54 PM UTC

atombender wrote: post #158

cletus wrote: post #62

So robocalls are the result of: - Cost of phone calls decreasing to basically zero - Cost of automation going to basically zero - Phone calls that can come from the Internet so there are no national boundaries anymore - Caller ID operating on essentially the honor system - Bad actors (telephone companies) benefitting from this traffic by charging for it - Larger players having no incentive to punish bad actors There'…

Whitelisting is problematic because there are so many cases where it's impractical or impossible to add a contact first: Doctor's office calling to confirm your appointment; restaurant confirming a seat reservation; delivery guy is outside and can't find your doorbell; Lyft/Uber/whatever is nearby and is looking for you; pharmacy calling to inform about a prescription being ready; some store calling to inform that yo…

Give unimportant strangers a Google voice number or an equivalent. Being able to mark a phone call as spam for a centrally managed service is useful.

Re: Let’s Destroy Robocalls

#206

Post by nathan_long » Mon, Mar 04, 2019, 8:57 PM UTC

cletus wrote: post #62

So robocalls are the result of: - Cost of phone calls decreasing to basically zero - Cost of automation going to basically zero - Phone calls that can come from the Internet so there are no national boundaries anymore - Caller ID operating on essentially the honor system - Bad actors (telephone companies) benefitting from this traffic by charging for it - Larger players having no incentive to punish bad actors There'…

The nightmare case for whitelisting is an emergency call from or on behalf of your spouse or child using a stranger's phone. This is why I don't want a whitelist.

What I want is for spammers specifically to be identifiable and blockable, or for their business to be made prohibitively expensive. I didn't get spam calls on my cell phone 15 years ago, and as you say, what has changed is largely economics. Why can't we work to adjust the economics back?

Re: Let’s Destroy Robocalls

#207

Post by mLuby » Mon, Mar 04, 2019, 9:05 PM UTC

atombender wrote: post #158

cletus wrote: post #62

So robocalls are the result of: - Cost of phone calls decreasing to basically zero - Cost of automation going to basically zero - Phone calls that can come from the Internet so there are no national boundaries anymore - Caller ID operating on essentially the honor system - Bad actors (telephone companies) benefitting from this traffic by charging for it - Larger players having no incentive to punish bad actors There'…

Whitelisting is problematic because there are so many cases where it's impractical or impossible to add a contact first: Doctor's office calling to confirm your appointment; restaurant confirming a seat reservation; delivery guy is outside and can't find your doorbell; Lyft/Uber/whatever is nearby and is looking for you; pharmacy calling to inform about a prescription being ready; some store calling to inform that yo…

I'd expect to be able to whitelist my doctor's office number. Likewise services I use like Uber/Lyft/delivery service XYZ.

And if whitelisting becomes a thing you know the UI is going to say "your order is complete! Please click here to whitelist our number in case we need to reach you."

Not a big deal, and it basically solves phone spam.

Re: Let’s Destroy Robocalls

#208

Post by atombender » Mon, Mar 04, 2019, 9:12 PM UTC

mLuby wrote: post #207

atombender wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whitelisting is problematic because there are so many cases where it's impractical or impossible to add a contact first: Doctor's office calling to confirm your appointment; restaurant confirming a seat reservation; delivery guy is outside and can't find your doorbell; Lyft/Uber/whatever is nearby and is looking for you; pharmacy calling to inform about a prescription being ready; some store calling to inform that yo…

I'd expect to be able to whitelist my doctor's office number. Likewise services I use like Uber/Lyft/delivery service XYZ. And if whitelisting becomes a thing you know the UI is going to say "your order is complete! Please click here to whitelist our number in case we need to reach you." Not a big deal, and it basically solves phone spam.

The mental overhead of having to keep track of what to whitelist means it's not something 99% of people are going to do. So while it might work for you, it's not a solution. I'm certainly not going to do it.

Re: Let’s Destroy Robocalls

#209

Post by xvector » Mon, Mar 04, 2019, 9:19 PM UTC

mLuby wrote: post #207

atombender wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whitelisting is problematic because there are so many cases where it's impractical or impossible to add a contact first: Doctor's office calling to confirm your appointment; restaurant confirming a seat reservation; delivery guy is outside and can't find your doorbell; Lyft/Uber/whatever is nearby and is looking for you; pharmacy calling to inform about a prescription being ready; some store calling to inform that yo…

I'd expect to be able to whitelist my doctor's office number. Likewise services I use like Uber/Lyft/delivery service XYZ. And if whitelisting becomes a thing you know the UI is going to say "your order is complete! Please click here to whitelist our number in case we need to reach you." Not a big deal, and it basically solves phone spam.

> And if whitelisting becomes a thing [...] Not a big deal

But that's the whole (big) deal. The solution is usually the trivial and easy part - getting people to change is the hard part.

Humanity is littered with millions of problems that could be solved if it wasn't for inertia. A solution cannot simply be better or more convenient - it has to be so overwhelmingly better, so much more convenient for people to even consider switching.

And while this solution is better, I don't see your average person caring enough to take the time to make sure they've whitelisted all services they use.

Re: Let’s Destroy Robocalls

#210

Post by justinmchase » Mon, Mar 04, 2019, 9:24 PM UTC

One time I got phone-DDoS'd by a robocaller who was using my number to call everyone else in my area code. Then for several hours, people were calling me back nonstop and saying "Calling you back...".

Incredibly annoying. When I complained to my phone provider they basically said there is no way to stop it since the callback numbers are spoofed and they apparently have no logs at all. Its _unreal_.