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USB4 Specification Announced: Adopting Thunderbolt 3 Protocol for 40 Gbps USB

anandtech.com

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Re: USB4 Specification Announced: Adopting Thunderbolt 3 Protocol for 40 Gbps USB

#61

Post by jwr »

artiscode wrote: post #46

Honestly, I'm waiting for old USB(USB A, USB B) to be deprecated and USB C become the new universal USB. As in ATM machine, you get the drill. Current USB cable situation is a mess - my phone is USB C, but it came with a USB A to USB C cable. Good thing I can connect it to my 2017 MacbookPro using it's original USB C charging cable! However then I can't charge. Sometimes I use a USB C to female USB A dongle to use my…

Don't get your hopes up, as this is just a dream. USB-C only specifies the connector. What your cables support, and what end devices support is anyone's guess. See for example https://superuser.com/questions/1199917/what-is-the-d-shaped...

In my opinion, the mess is actually much worse with USB-C, as with earlier connectors I at least had a chance of guessing whether the cable/connection will work by looking at the connectors. With USB-C? No idea.

Re: USB4 Specification Announced: Adopting Thunderbolt 3 Protocol for 40 Gbps USB

#62

Post by gumby »

artiscode wrote: post #33
randyrand wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nope. Much simpler. Just enabling the use of the other data lanes that were already in the cable waiting to be used one day. USB-C has 4 differential twisted pair data lines.

That sort of explains why USB cables have been getting more expensive. More copper.

and more silicon. These cables are more than just wire.

Re: USB4 Specification Announced: Adopting Thunderbolt 3 Protocol for 40 Gbps USB

#63

Post by metaphor »

artiscode wrote: post #33
randyrand wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nope. Much simpler. Just enabling the use of the other data lanes that were already in the cable waiting to be used one day. USB-C has 4 differential twisted pair data lines.

That sort of explains why USB cables have been getting more expensive. More copper.

It's more the process of qualifying technology that's increasingly faster with every generation than the cost of raw materials.

Re: USB4 Specification Announced: Adopting Thunderbolt 3 Protocol for 40 Gbps USB

#64

Post by DaiPlusPlus »

jsgo wrote: post #19
wlesieutre wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Article says "The USB4 specification will be based on the Thunderbolt protocol that Intel has contributed to the USB Promoter Group. The new interface will use USB Type-C connectors and will maintain backwards compatibility with USB 2.0, USB 3.2, and Thunderbolt 3 interfaces ", so bet on probably . But maybe not, they might only mean that a USB4 computer can use a TB3 device. I expect they'll continue the trend of in…

or port color. We've used blue and red at least, guess it is time for green (in which case, confusion for the Razer Blade users).

Apple will never use coloured ports.

Re: USB4 Specification Announced: Adopting Thunderbolt 3 Protocol for 40 Gbps USB

#65

Post by gumby »

jsgo wrote: post #14
penagwin wrote: post #8

Here's an idea, let's make different connector shapes depending on the cable/connector's capabilities, lets do one for connectors that support display, one for power, one for thunderbolt, that way they're easy for the average consumer to identify! Oh wait that's the issue USB was supposed to solve in the first place....

My hope is that Type-C is going to be all of those things so that in the future, I only need one kind of cable (until the inevitable new plug that supplants it, but hopefully universally used as well). Currently, I have to pay attention to a USB3 Type-C cable vs a Thunderbolt 3 cable as there is a difference (I was shopping for a long TB3 cable and was unable to find one. Instead, seems the longer ones tend to be USB…

That's because TB has length restrictions slower USB protocols do not.

Don't forget higher power PD cables (it can go up to 100 W!) should have higher gauge wires as well.

Re: USB4 Specification Announced: Adopting Thunderbolt 3 Protocol for 40 Gbps USB

#66

Post by TOGoS »

chrisseaton wrote: post #48
pkaye wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm no means an expert but up to USB 2.0 there were 4 pins (2 for power and 2 differential signals for bidirectional data) With USB 3.0 they added 4 more signals for separate transmit/receive. Initially they used 8b/10b encoding and then switched to 128b/132b encoding. They also increased the signaling rate with each generation. Also in the USB 2.0 and earlier the higher level protocols were kind of inefficient with…

> With USB 3.0 they added 4 more signals for separate transmit/receive So is it not actually serial any more?

Multiple serial connections in parallel.

Re: USB4 Specification Announced: Adopting Thunderbolt 3 Protocol for 40 Gbps USB

#67

Post by jwr »

jsgo wrote: post #14
penagwin wrote: post #8

Here's an idea, let's make different connector shapes depending on the cable/connector's capabilities, lets do one for connectors that support display, one for power, one for thunderbolt, that way they're easy for the average consumer to identify! Oh wait that's the issue USB was supposed to solve in the first place....

My hope is that Type-C is going to be all of those things so that in the future, I only need one kind of cable (until the inevitable new plug that supplants it, but hopefully universally used as well). Currently, I have to pay attention to a USB3 Type-C cable vs a Thunderbolt 3 cable as there is a difference (I was shopping for a long TB3 cable and was unable to find one. Instead, seems the longer ones tend to be USB…

This is not a realistic expectation, unless you are OK with your "one cable" being 0.5m long. The "one-cable" thing is a dream, unfortunately.

Re: USB4 Specification Announced: Adopting Thunderbolt 3 Protocol for 40 Gbps USB

#68

Post by brentonator »

artiscode wrote: post #46

Honestly, I'm waiting for old USB(USB A, USB B) to be deprecated and USB C become the new universal USB. As in ATM machine, you get the drill. Current USB cable situation is a mess - my phone is USB C, but it came with a USB A to USB C cable. Good thing I can connect it to my 2017 MacbookPro using it's original USB C charging cable! However then I can't charge. Sometimes I use a USB C to female USB A dongle to use my…

What kind of BS phone is that? Pixels support USB-PD which is something I'd say should be mandatory if you have a USB-C port. I can charge other phones, charge from other phones, charge my Nintendo Switch, charge from my PC, etc.

That they gave you the USB-A to USB-C cable as your go-to cable is a red flag that they are peddling the connector as a marketing bullet point.

Re: USB4 Specification Announced: Adopting Thunderbolt 3 Protocol for 40 Gbps USB

#69

Post by nintendo1889 »

reaperducer wrote: post #41
mac01021 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never saw anyone hooking up a monitor via USB 2.0

I've seen them for sale on Amazon and elsewhere. I always thought they'd be neat to throw in a supplemental kit bag for a second display on the go. I think some of the smaller ones were even bus powered.

I've seen those usb 2.0 display adapters and I never used one but I heard that they had low refresh rates and/or low resolution, due to the 5 volt limits.

I personally use a usb 2.0 NIC so that I can be packet capturing on multiple switch/vlan/ingress or egress at the same time.

Re: USB4 Specification Announced: Adopting Thunderbolt 3 Protocol for 40 Gbps USB

#70

Post by nintendo1889 »

DaiPlusPlus wrote: post #56
reaperducer wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've seen them for sale on Amazon and elsewhere. I always thought they'd be neat to throw in a supplemental kit bag for a second display on the go. I think some of the smaller ones were even bus powered.

Those are USB 3.0-based DisplayLink connectors. Any supposed USB 2.0-based display connectors (I’ve never seen any, I’m just speculating) would have been some VNC-like contraption involving an emulated frame buffer on the host.

I've seen those usb 2.0 display adapters and I never used one but I heard that they had low refresh rates and/or low resolution, due to the 5 volt limits. I personally use a usb 2.0 NIC so that I can be packet capturing on multiple switch/vlan/ingress or egress at the same time.
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