As a side note: I have recently come over a university which promised a gender equality in "all our science degrees", which it explained as an "admission of 50% males, 50% females". But how can it be a "gender equality", if 80% of the applicants are males?
Google Moves to Address Wage Equity, and Finds It’s Underpaying Many Men
121–130 of 626 posts
Re: Google Moves to Address Wage Equity, and Finds It’s Underpaying Many Men
#122Many companies avoid these kind of issues by having a strict experience-based salary scale for all positions. Gender or any other identity factor is then irrelevant if pay is based entirely upon candidate experience, right? Edit: I have no knowledge of how Google handles salary. If anyone knows, feel free to share.
Sounds like a union shop.
Re: Google Moves to Address Wage Equity, and Finds It’s Underpaying Many Men
#123Earlier quoted context omitted.
How likely is it possible for Google to systematically underpay? People voluntarily take positions there (and in fact, compete to get hired there).
>People voluntarily take positions there (and in fact, compete to get hired there). I would say this makes it more likely for people to be underpaid, especially when factoring in hours worked. See SpaceX for another example.
Lots of people want to work in game development. Lots of people do. Some people say game devs are underpaid. I tend to think that they're paid what they agreed to accept and that is based in large part on market forces (supply and demand, value over replacement, etc.). I also left game development because it wasn't for me long-term. (I was underpaid relative to what I could make in another industry, but I wasn't underpaid by my game-dev company. They quickly hired a replacement for me, I'm sure.)
A company like Google, paying substantially over minimum wage, is probably not underpaying most employees systematically, almost by definition IMO.
Re: Google Moves to Address Wage Equity, and Finds It’s Underpaying Many Men
#124Earlier quoted context omitted.
Pretty sure this is a troll but if it's not then I Disagree.
I'm almost certain that's a troll or else someone that forgot a "/s"
> should be good enough for everyone
This is an "inside" indicator, referencing that ol' ungenerous-but-pithy paraphrase of a since-disavowed Bill Gates quote regarding 640 kB of personal computer memory. It's like the phrase "modest proposal", in that you only know it's marking something as insincere with some out-of-band knowledge.
Re: Google Moves to Address Wage Equity, and Finds It’s Underpaying Many Men
#125To me the key takeaway is that google systematically underpays both men and women.
The takeaway is that compensations are not perfectly aligned with whatever model was used in the study. Which is expected because compensations were not set using that model, so they won’t be exactly the same. And at that point, if the model is calibrated for everage compensation to be the same, it’s obvious that some people will get compensations below the prediction of the model and some people will get compensatio…
> And at that point, if the model is calibrated for everage compensation to be the same, it’s obvious that some people will get compensations below the prediction of the model and some people will get compensations above the prediction of the model.
This is true of most models (in practice - any model which models salary in the real world) yet not every company is being accused of these payment discrimination lawsuits.
Re: Google Moves to Address Wage Equity, and Finds It’s Underpaying Many Men
#126from my experience women get promoted to managerial positions much sooner and much more ease than men. Upper managment finds women more agreeable, less threatening, less combative and more likely to run with their plans without question and make upper manager look good. Women are also eager than men to move out of coding roles into JIRA management roles. My last two managers were women both of them given that position for purely reasons I described above.
Re: Google Moves to Address Wage Equity, and Finds It’s Underpaying Many Men
#127The gender wage gap is real in the sense that there is a gap, but when you analyze it, they are comparing apples to oranges. I'm sure everyone here knows this. https://data.oecd.org/earnwage/gender-wage-gap.htm The countries with the highest wage gaps are the countries with the most equality in the workplace. Women in Korea are not treated poorly. The important thing though is the people proposing that the wage gap i…
Calling it "apples to oranges" is overlooking how some fields are broadly underpaid, which often (though not always) overlaps with gender disparity. For example, primary and secondary school teaching is a 'traditionally female' field that gets massively underpaid compared to tertiary education, despite if anything being much more important to society.
Re: Google Moves to Address Wage Equity, and Finds It’s Underpaying Many Men
#128Earlier quoted context omitted.
>People voluntarily take positions there (and in fact, compete to get hired there). I would say this makes it more likely for people to be underpaid, especially when factoring in hours worked. See SpaceX for another example.
Lots of people want to work in game development. Lots of people do. Some people say game devs are underpaid. I tend to think that they're paid what they agreed to accept and that is based in large part on market forces (supply and demand, value over replacement, etc.). I also left game development because it wasn't for me long-term. (I was underpaid relative to what I could make in another industry, but I wasn't unde…
> I was underpaid relative to what I could make in another industry, but I wasn't underpaid by my game-dev company.
If a company underpays all its employees equally, it's still underpaying. Companies that do this are taking advantage of how people are not rational actors.
Re: Google Moves to Address Wage Equity, and Finds It’s Underpaying Many Men
#129I sometimes find that I have to write a comment questioning the very premises of the discussion, whether it's Net Neutrality (Title I vs Title II) or the Pay Gap (women vs men). This is one of those times.
There are many factors for why women are paid less than men for the same type of position. Many of these factors have to do with hours worked and expectations around child rearing. And when this is taken out, the women are found to make as much or more than men.
My position can be summed up like this:
The corporate world is about 100 years old, with its crazy commutes and uses of energy just to sit in a chair. This comes at the expense of future generations (fossil fuels), and current family values (taking care of children, elderly, etc.)
Why do we say that women have to keep learning from men on how to move up the corporate ladder, work long hours and get paid more. Perhaps men should learn more from women about how to have a healthy work-life balance, take care of the kids more, and their parents.
Today's kids are overmedicated with methamphetamines for ADHD, there is an opiod crisis among adults, 1 in 4 middle aged women is on antidepressants, the elderly are in nursing homes.
The wages have stagnated largely because both sexes flooded the labor pool, globalization and outsourcing and automation caused everyone to go into a race to the bottom. Now both parents are working for corporations. Fewer working Americans are becoming parents. They're in a Red Queen rat race, 1/3 of Americans are one paycheck away from homelessness. Is this really the best outcome for Americans?
Today's world isn't that of your grandfather, the company man who had loyalty both ways for decades and got a pension. Today we have two year stints, gig economy, part time work.
Andrew Yang wants to do what Nixon almost did, and institute a UBI for all Americans like the Permanent Fund in Alaska (lowest inequality of all states, year after year).
Why do we think Corporate Careers should take so many of our hours a week? Why should we trade time with our children and elderly for more money, just to survive? In the past, indirectly, child rearing was valued because one of two parents simply didn't take the job, so there was less available labor, so one parent could pay for the whole thing.
The system is broken, and we are accomplices by talking about how women can match the men in their "career opportunities" of long hours, instead of talking about parental leave for men like in Scandinavian countries, making the school day shorter, etc.
Read this for more info: http://magarshak.com/blog/?p=286
Re: Google Moves to Address Wage Equity, and Finds It’s Underpaying Many Men
#130The gender wage gap is real in the sense that there is a gap, but when you analyze it, they are comparing apples to oranges. I'm sure everyone here knows this. https://data.oecd.org/earnwage/gender-wage-gap.htm The countries with the highest wage gaps are the countries with the most equality in the workplace. Women in Korea are not treated poorly. The important thing though is the people proposing that the wage gap i…
Calling it "apples to oranges" is overlooking how some fields are broadly underpaid, which often (though not always) overlaps with gender disparity. For example, primary and secondary school teaching is a 'traditionally female' field that gets massively underpaid compared to tertiary education, despite if anything being much more important to society.