Let’s Destroy Robocalls • Hacker News Board

Re: Let’s Destroy Robocalls

#121

Post by eropple » Mon, Mar 04, 2019, 6:37 PM UTC

kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #99

cletus wrote: post #62

So robocalls are the result of: - Cost of phone calls decreasing to basically zero - Cost of automation going to basically zero - Phone calls that can come from the Internet so there are no national boundaries anymore - Caller ID operating on essentially the honor system - Bad actors (telephone companies) benefitting from this traffic by charging for it - Larger players having no incentive to punish bad actors There'…

It would be nice if someone would create a device to exchange contact info with businesses to close the loop on managing the whitelist for new, infrequent associations. I should be able to go to a receptionist, mechanic, or contractor and accept identifying info from a Bluetooth device or a standardized non-URL QR code payload to let them contact me in the future. Then we could more conveniently manage authentication…

You can embed a vCard in a QR code right now. Your phone should handle it correctly.

Re: Let’s Destroy Robocalls

#122

Post by UI_at_80x24 » Mon, Mar 04, 2019, 6:37 PM UTC

escherplex wrote: post #87

cletus wrote: post #62

So robocalls are the result of: - Cost of phone calls decreasing to basically zero - Cost of automation going to basically zero - Phone calls that can come from the Internet so there are no national boundaries anymore - Caller ID operating on essentially the honor system - Bad actors (telephone companies) benefitting from this traffic by charging for it - Larger players having no incentive to punish bad actors There'…

A smart phone app which behaves as a firewall requiring callers to enter, say, a three character PIN code before phone rings may be useful. Incorporate two message files, one for leaving messages from those who know the PIN code and one those who don't, would allow for any contingencies. A front end answering machine box for the home with the same functionalities may be useful as well.

I don't pay for apps on my phone. I would $20 for that.

Re: Let’s Destroy Robocalls

#123

Post by gyrgtyn » Mon, Mar 04, 2019, 6:37 PM UTC

epriest wrote: post #14

gonehome wrote: post #3

What confuses me about this is that Apple could solve this in two seconds by allowing contact whitelists where only incoming calls in your contacts are accepted and everything else is sent to voicemail or dropped. Is there a law against this or something? Nomorobo, Robokiller, Hiya all do an okay job as blacklisting applications but that seems like the wrong way to go about it. Some suggest using do not disturb to do…

Here's how to actually "solve" this problem on an iPhone: - Pay $1.99 to buy a silent ringtone from the ringtone store. - Make that your default ringtone. - Give everyone who you want to be able to call you an audible ringtone.

You can put your phone on do not disturb and allow calls from

Re: Let’s Destroy Robocalls

#124

Post by acdha » Mon, Mar 04, 2019, 6:37 PM UTC

dfxm12 wrote: post #91

acdha wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What confuses me about this is that Apple could solve this in two seconds by allowing contact whitelists where only incoming calls in your contacts are accepted and everything else is sent to voicemail or dropped. Now you missed the reminder from your dentist, a call from that relative whose new number you forgot to save, and you have 600 recruiters and other stale business contacts in your address book because you…

Now you missed the reminder from your dentist, a call from that relative whose new number you forgot to save These are the types of people who leave voicemails. Robocallers are not...

… and? The point is that trying to maintain a 100% accurate list of numbers from which you want to receive calls from is a non-trivial amount of work AND it's useless as long as the spammer can just forge the number of someone legitimate.

Re: Let’s Destroy Robocalls

#125

Post by gist » Mon, Mar 04, 2019, 6:38 PM UTC

rtkwe wrote: post #78

uberman wrote: post #47

What I don't quite understand is, how can the NSA and/or other three letter agencies reliably collect meta data on calls and how can the telcos reliably charge for calls and services, yet we are unable to stop robocalling...

Legally carriers are required to connect all calls in the US. That provision is pretty important but leaves the system open to abuse. I hope we can find a way to block out robocalls without allowing the phone system to balkanize. https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/47/251

Federal law also says you can't sell marijuana. However the government has pretty much decided to not prosecute that for some time. In general it's hard to believe that any law such as that would not defacto allow an exception for what can be shown as an abusive behavior. Under the theory that the law says 'you are required to connect all calls' you could say that carriers could not legally block someone who keeps calling a phone number in an abusive manner (with or w/o the permission or at the request of the customer).

Re: Let’s Destroy Robocalls

#126

Post by rootusrootus » Mon, Mar 04, 2019, 6:38 PM UTC

CuriousCosmic wrote: post #104

moate wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a blacklist, "Don't accept calls from X". A white list would be "only accept calls from Y". That's what GP seems to be asking for.

Block unknown callers is a whitelist though. It's literally "block everyone not in my contact list".

You might want to verify that. Last time I checked, android's block unknown caller option just blocked calls where caller ID was blocked (aka "private").

Re: Let’s Destroy Robocalls

#127

Post by knicholes » Mon, Mar 04, 2019, 6:39 PM UTC

escherplex wrote: post #87

cletus wrote: post #62

So robocalls are the result of: - Cost of phone calls decreasing to basically zero - Cost of automation going to basically zero - Phone calls that can come from the Internet so there are no national boundaries anymore - Caller ID operating on essentially the honor system - Bad actors (telephone companies) benefitting from this traffic by charging for it - Larger players having no incentive to punish bad actors There'…

A smart phone app which behaves as a firewall requiring callers to enter, say, a three character PIN code before phone rings may be useful. Incorporate two message files, one for leaving messages from those who know the PIN code and one those who don't, would allow for any contingencies. A front end answering machine box for the home with the same functionalities may be useful as well.

Is there a way to access the call before it hits your phone? I looked briefly, because I'm very passionate about this problem, and couldn't find anything. I don't want to answer the call and wait for someone to enter a pin. I want them to have entered a sufficiently long randomly generated number (spoken to them by some voice generation service) before it even makes my phone send a notification to me.

Re: Let’s Destroy Robocalls

#128

Post by bonobo_34 » Mon, Mar 04, 2019, 6:39 PM UTC

cfallin wrote: post #84

One solution, not practical for most folks but works well for me: live in a different area code than phone number. (My cell number is in the area code I grew up in.) It seems most spam calls either fake a source number that's in my phone's area code, or use a completely random source. Almost any inbound call I actually expect without an address-book entry would come from my (new) local area code, so I can pick up a c…

I get a lot of robocalls from spoofed numbers that have my area code and even the first 3 digits of my phone number in common. I guess the thought is that people are more likely to pick up if the number looks familiar? For me, it's just an indication of a robo call that I won't pick up.

Re: Let’s Destroy Robocalls

#129

Post by inetknght » Mon, Mar 04, 2019, 6:40 PM UTC

redwards510 wrote: post #117

This being HN, everyone has a technological solution or workaround to the calls themselves. Why can't we simply go after the companies that are being advertised during the robocall? They all have a link or number back to the actual company being advertised.

What makes you think the link or number is legitimate?

Or, better said: what makes you think the link or number is enforceable in the U.S.?

Re: Let’s Destroy Robocalls

#130

Post by penagwin » Mon, Mar 04, 2019, 6:40 PM UTC

Loughla wrote: post #105

escherplex wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A smart phone app which behaves as a firewall requiring callers to enter, say, a three character PIN code before phone rings may be useful. Incorporate two message files, one for leaving messages from those who know the PIN code and one those who don't, would allow for any contingencies. A front end answering machine box for the home with the same functionalities may be useful as well.

So shift the burden of calling to literally everyone who is acting well? Why would I want to remember a unique PIN for everyone I know? Also, isn't that just taking the 9 digit phone number and turning it into a 12 digit?

Plus how would we share this "pin"? Maybe we could append it to the phone number, like "+1 (616) 281 - 2123#32343" - Oh wait, it's already a number, what's the point of adding more onto it? It would literally turn into the same system that we have, as you have to share the pin with everyone anyway.