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Scientists brew cannabis using modified beer yeast

nature.com

41–50 of 81 posts

Re: Scientists brew cannabis using modified beer yeast

#41
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah but then you're growing and refining a plant to avoid growing and refining a plant. The article said it needs to improve 100x. I'm not sure if that's reflective of today's or future prices as they continue to rapidly drop. It's certainly not impossible. I think it's just unlikely given the similarity between the tobacco and cannabis industries from a supply chain perspective.

Yes but at this point sugar is far more industrialized than cannabis. Sugar is ~$.15/lb wholesale (or less).

Which is meaningless unless we know how much sugar is required to produce a given dollar value of usable THC etc molecules.

Additionally, cannabis tends to be extraordinarily easy to grow, and THC extraordinarily easy to extract.

Cannabis already is grown at industrial scale, all that’s missing is a few large scale certified extraction facilities.

Tasmanian Alkaloids, the worlds largest supplier of thebaine, may well be ready to scale up rapidly.[1]

1. https://www.examiner.com.au/story/5150473/tas-alks-considers...

Re: Scientists brew cannabis using modified beer yeast

#42
post #38

'hacked' is very quickly becoming one of my least favourite words. Just call it what it is: it's not hacking, it's genetic modification.

Ok we've modified the title.

It wasn't meant as commentary on you using it as the title. It's more that it's a stupid pop-sci term that has no place in the communication of a giant such as Nature.

Re: Scientists brew cannabis using modified beer yeast

#43

'hacked' is very quickly becoming one of my least favourite words. Just call it what it is: it's not hacking, it's genetic modification.

It's the headline, and it's fine. Check the etymology of `hack` and you'll see it's a suitable word for gene editing.

> It's the headline, and it's fine.

I know it's the headline, that's why I complained about it. Nature should know better.

> Check the etymology of `hack` and you'll see it's a suitable word for gene editing.

I'm not making any statement based on the etymology of the word, though I don't see what in the etymology of the word 'hack' would make it an accurate description.

Re: Scientists brew cannabis using modified beer yeast

#44

As someone in this industry, I doubt this will become a reality. The real problem is cost. When you use yeast, you have to supply the energy for the entire system. When you grow a plant, you get free energy from the sun. The cost savings are hard to beat. Nicotine extracts aren't made from yeast either. That should be a big warning flag for the business sides of these cool projects.

> Nicotine extracts

They are not extracts. The nicotine in vape juice is 100% synthetic.

Re: Scientists brew cannabis using modified beer yeast

#45

As someone in this industry, I doubt this will become a reality. The real problem is cost. When you use yeast, you have to supply the energy for the entire system. When you grow a plant, you get free energy from the sun. The cost savings are hard to beat. Nicotine extracts aren't made from yeast either. That should be a big warning flag for the business sides of these cool projects.

My understanding of illicit cannabis production is only from films like "Lock, Stock and Two Smoking Barrels" but it seems to be heat lamps in basements and caravans etc. And the impression the news gives me is that UK Police regularly use heat cameras from helicopters and analysis of electricity bills to find illegal growers. Would this approach allow test-tube illegal cultivation with a much less detectable footpri…

I think you will find that they actualy don't do much with helicopters at all. Helicopters are extremely expensive to operate and using them for fishing expeditions probably isn't done. Oh, THEY SAY it is done, but that is a lie. What they are really doing is monitoring all communications and when someone pops on their radar, if they wish to proceed with the case, they concoct what is known as a "parallel construction" and then at that point, yes, they might do a flyover with an infra-red camera to obtain evidence. But in court it's all wink-wink "routine flyover" because they don't want everyone to know that the West is now an Orwellian Police State (TM) with all the bells and whistles.

You simply have no idea how far gone we are.

Re: Scientists brew cannabis using modified beer yeast

#46
post #44

As someone in this industry, I doubt this will become a reality. The real problem is cost. When you use yeast, you have to supply the energy for the entire system. When you grow a plant, you get free energy from the sun. The cost savings are hard to beat. Nicotine extracts aren't made from yeast either. That should be a big warning flag for the business sides of these cool projects.

> Nicotine extracts They are not extracts. The nicotine in vape juice is 100% synthetic.

That depends; some actually do use natural nicotine (especially those made by tobacco companies, for obvious reasons).

Re: Scientists brew cannabis using modified beer yeast

#47

As someone in this industry, I doubt this will become a reality. The real problem is cost. When you use yeast, you have to supply the energy for the entire system. When you grow a plant, you get free energy from the sun. The cost savings are hard to beat. Nicotine extracts aren't made from yeast either. That should be a big warning flag for the business sides of these cool projects.

So this accidentally made me go down a speculative rabbit hole... Cannabis is apparently a C3 plant[0]. It's also not a perennial. So while you have a point, there is still room for improving efficiency. I tried looking up what the current status with genetically modifying plants with high photosynthetic efficiency was. First thing I found was... tobacco[1]. Yeah, that's not all that useful.

More generally, I wonder if there might be some kind of "holy grail" easy-to-grow, easy to genetically modify plant out there that could be a perfect template for photosynthetic production of all kinds of organic compounds. I know people have been trying to modify algea and cyanobacteria to make synthetic biofuels directly for ages, for example. Sadly the Wiki page on photosynthetic efficiency remains fairly superficial[2], and the C3, C4 and CAM pathway articles, while a tempting rabbit hole, don't seem to help much either[3][4][5].

Also, we all know monocrop farming is not going to be sustainable: the simplicity of it makes it easier to "optimize" for farming machines, but at the cost of soil degradation, while also being more prone to diseases and weather disasters. Plus, with current improvements in automation the optimization advantage is shrinking rapidly. Could agroforestry, like the kind advocated by Geoff Lawton[6] or Willie Smits[7][8][9] be combined with this? The benefit/problem with agroforestry is that it has many different kinds of complex yields. All useful, but perhaps not so flexible. However, Smits suggests an economy based on the sugar palm as a source of bioethanol:

> And Smits said that he discovered that because of the [black sugar palm]'s special leaf structure, its year-round production and extremely efficient photosynthesis, the yield of ethanol from the sugar palm was far greater than the biofuel output from other feedstocks in use around the world. Smits says that his process can produce 19 tons (6,300 gallons/24,000 liters) of ethanol per hectare annually. That's a staggering output-to-land area ratio compared to corn, the favored ethanol crop of the United States, at 3.3 tons (1,100 gallons/4,200 liters) per hectare, by most recent U.S. Department of Agriculture yield figures. It also far outshines Brazil's sugarcane; output was assumed to be 4.5 tons (1,500 gallons/5,700 liters) per hectare in the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency's recent lifecycle analysis of renewable fuels. [A hectare is 2.5 acres.]

Keep in mind that once a tree has grown it requires less energy and material to maintain. Non-perennial plants have to grow every year, which comes with large energy and material overheads (both from the plants itself and from the labour involved). That makes the claim more plausable. (Cool little tangent: looking for more information on this Arenga Pinnata the first thing I came across was its listing as an invasive species on BioNET-EAFRINET, a knowledge database run by Kenyan and Ugandan research institutes[10]. This is the kind of work that never reaches the Western media, and I would guess it's partially because it does not fit our existing narrative biases that are still very much stuck in colonial times)

Now, bioethanol is a fuel source for cars, but sugar is a fuel source for living things. So why not use that as a form of "energy currency" for biohacking? It would have the benefit of increased flexibility. Imagine having a food forest centered around sugar palms, like Smits suggests, with a few genetic modifications for even higher energy yields, and with a lab nearby that can grow the more complex organic compounds with simpler but easier to genetically modify life-forms, like yeast. The sugar palm provides a steady source of biofuel, while the yeast (or whatever) being cultivated can be changed quickly to meet shifting market demands.

Anyway, this is all just speculation, and perhaps the losses of energy involved are so great it would not work out. OTOH, going the agroforestry route yields so many other integrated benefits like local climate control, CO2 sinks and a fresh water supply in the groundwater that I expect it will be a net win when viewed holistically.

[0] https://old.reddit.com/r/botany/comments/63ybgx/c3_and_c4_pl...

[1] http://science.sciencemag.org/content/363/6422/eaat9077

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photosynthetic_efficiency

[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C3_carbon_fixation

[4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C4_carbon_fixation

[5] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crassulacean_acid_metabolism

[6] https://www.discoverpermaculture.com/video-1-pdc-2019

[7] https://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/energy/2011/06/1106...

[8] https://vimeo.com/8724530

[9] https://www.ted.com/talks/willie_smits_restores_a_rainforest...

[10] https://keys.lucidcentral.org/keys/v3/eafrinet/weeds/key/wee...

Re: Scientists brew cannabis using modified beer yeast

#48

As someone in this industry, I doubt this will become a reality. The real problem is cost. When you use yeast, you have to supply the energy for the entire system. When you grow a plant, you get free energy from the sun. The cost savings are hard to beat. Nicotine extracts aren't made from yeast either. That should be a big warning flag for the business sides of these cool projects.

If somebody will pay for it, someone else will make it. And there are plenty of people who will buy weed beer.

Re: Scientists brew cannabis using modified beer yeast

#49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the headline, and it's fine. Check the etymology of `hack` and you'll see it's a suitable word for gene editing.

> It's the headline, and it's fine. I know it's the headline, that's why I complained about it. Nature should know better. > Check the etymology of `hack` and you'll see it's a suitable word for gene editing. I'm not making any statement based on the etymology of the word, though I don't see what in the etymology of the word 'hack' would make it an accurate description.

"Hacking" in my mind means making something do something it wasn't intended to do. I think that fits here.

I stil approve of the new title, though. Please remove as much clickbaity bullshit from titles as possible.

Re: Scientists brew cannabis using modified beer yeast

#50
post #39

As someone in this industry, I doubt this will become a reality. The real problem is cost. When you use yeast, you have to supply the energy for the entire system. When you grow a plant, you get free energy from the sun. The cost savings are hard to beat. Nicotine extracts aren't made from yeast either. That should be a big warning flag for the business sides of these cool projects.

> When you use yeast, you have to supply the energy for the entire system The “entire system” is a vat with yeast in it. For starters, that’s a much more space efficient way of growing something than in plants. Secondly, the energy you provide to the system, in brewing, is just sugar, which is incredibly cheap. In fact, given that this works well, at large scale, for beer brewing (i.e. ethanol production), why do you…

How does yeast get amino acids? How does it get nitrogen for that matter? Doesn’t it need those to grow?

Seems like we just give it sugar.

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