Scientists brew cannabis using modified beer yeast • Hacker News Board

Re: Scientists brew cannabis using modified beer yeast

#21

Post by adrianN » Mon, Mar 04, 2019, 7:49 AM UTC

dumbfoundded wrote: post #5

As someone in this industry, I doubt this will become a reality. The real problem is cost. When you use yeast, you have to supply the energy for the entire system. When you grow a plant, you get free energy from the sun. The cost savings are hard to beat. Nicotine extracts aren't made from yeast either. That should be a big warning flag for the business sides of these cool projects.

I'm no expert in this, but I wouldn't be surprised if the energy costs could be outweighed by less land use and less labor.

Re: Scientists brew cannabis using modified beer yeast

#22

Post by jakobegger » Mon, Mar 04, 2019, 7:56 AM UTC

a_imho wrote: post #18

How does yeast modification actually work?

You take a gene from a plant, change the codons to whatever yeast uses, and then you put it into the yeast DNA.

The hard part is that presumably multiple genes are required to produce a compound, and getting all of them to produce stuff at the right rate is probably difficult as well, since we don't 100% understand how to regulate gene expression.

Re: Scientists brew cannabis using modified beer yeast

#23

Post by cannabisfarmer » Mon, Mar 04, 2019, 8:05 AM UTC

adrianN wrote: post #21

dumbfoundded wrote: post #5

As someone in this industry, I doubt this will become a reality. The real problem is cost. When you use yeast, you have to supply the energy for the entire system. When you grow a plant, you get free energy from the sun. The cost savings are hard to beat. Nicotine extracts aren't made from yeast either. That should be a big warning flag for the business sides of these cool projects.

I'm no expert in this, but I wouldn't be surprised if the energy costs could be outweighed by less land use and less labor.

Labor required in cannabis is almost negligible. You just need labor to harvest it!

Re: Scientists brew cannabis using modified beer yeast

#24

Post by a_imho » Mon, Mar 04, 2019, 8:06 AM UTC

jakobegger wrote: post #22

a_imho wrote: post #18

How does yeast modification actually work?

You take a gene from a plant, change the codons to whatever yeast uses, and then you put it into the yeast DNA. The hard part is that presumably multiple genes are required to produce a compound, and getting all of them to produce stuff at the right rate is probably difficult as well, since we don't 100% understand how to regulate gene expression.

Thanks! Could you shed some more light on how one actually takes a gene from a plant (in a lab setting I suppose) and put it into yeast?

Re: Scientists brew cannabis using modified beer yeast

#25

Post by aaron695 » Mon, Mar 04, 2019, 8:33 AM UTC

dumbfoundded wrote: post #5

As someone in this industry, I doubt this will become a reality. The real problem is cost. When you use yeast, you have to supply the energy for the entire system. When you grow a plant, you get free energy from the sun. The cost savings are hard to beat. Nicotine extracts aren't made from yeast either. That should be a big warning flag for the business sides of these cool projects.

50 cents of sugar produces 23 litres of beer.

Energy costs are ~zero.

Maybe you are thinking of hemp.

Re: Scientists brew cannabis using modified beer yeast

#26

Post by dumbfoundded » Mon, Mar 04, 2019, 8:40 AM UTC

adrianN wrote: post #21

dumbfoundded wrote: post #5

As someone in this industry, I doubt this will become a reality. The real problem is cost. When you use yeast, you have to supply the energy for the entire system. When you grow a plant, you get free energy from the sun. The cost savings are hard to beat. Nicotine extracts aren't made from yeast either. That should be a big warning flag for the business sides of these cool projects.

I'm no expert in this, but I wouldn't be surprised if the energy costs could be outweighed by less land use and less labor.

Land is pretty cheap. The kind of stuff used in manufacturing is what they call biomass. Basically they just chop down and grind the whole plant with a tractor. Planting will get automated too. Plant genetics are also improving.

The result is that the cost of hemp/cannabis is rapidly dropping. These new startups will have to surpass a moving target. I'm not saying it's impossible but I doubt it.

Re: Scientists brew cannabis using modified beer yeast

#27

Post by dumbfoundded » Mon, Mar 04, 2019, 8:45 AM UTC

rajacombinator wrote: post #19

dumbfoundded wrote: post #5

As someone in this industry, I doubt this will become a reality. The real problem is cost. When you use yeast, you have to supply the energy for the entire system. When you grow a plant, you get free energy from the sun. The cost savings are hard to beat. Nicotine extracts aren't made from yeast either. That should be a big warning flag for the business sides of these cool projects.

What would be some good (economically viable) applications of this tech?

I'm not sure. I'd produce something you cannot grow with a plant that grows so easily they call it weed. I think it's a cool technology, they just chose an interesting target b/c of the hype about the industry.

Re: Scientists brew cannabis using modified beer yeast

#28

Post by dumbfoundded » Mon, Mar 04, 2019, 8:47 AM UTC

RachelF wrote: post #17

dumbfoundded wrote: post #5

As someone in this industry, I doubt this will become a reality. The real problem is cost. When you use yeast, you have to supply the energy for the entire system. When you grow a plant, you get free energy from the sun. The cost savings are hard to beat. Nicotine extracts aren't made from yeast either. That should be a big warning flag for the business sides of these cool projects.

Two years back they synthesized the both halves of the steps for creating morphine using yeast. If you feed the yeast sugar, which is made from sunlight it will be worth it if the yields are high enough.

Yeah but then you're growing and refining a plant to avoid growing and refining a plant.

The article said it needs to improve 100x. I'm not sure if that's reflective of today's or future prices as they continue to rapidly drop.

It's certainly not impossible. I think it's just unlikely given the similarity between the tobacco and cannabis industries from a supply chain perspective.

Re: Scientists brew cannabis using modified beer yeast

#29

Post by willvarfar » Mon, Mar 04, 2019, 8:59 AM UTC

dumbfoundded wrote: post #5

As someone in this industry, I doubt this will become a reality. The real problem is cost. When you use yeast, you have to supply the energy for the entire system. When you grow a plant, you get free energy from the sun. The cost savings are hard to beat. Nicotine extracts aren't made from yeast either. That should be a big warning flag for the business sides of these cool projects.

My understanding of illicit cannabis production is only from films like "Lock, Stock and Two Smoking Barrels" but it seems to be heat lamps in basements and caravans etc.

And the impression the news gives me is that UK Police regularly use heat cameras from helicopters and analysis of electricity bills to find illegal growers.

Would this approach allow test-tube illegal cultivation with a much less detectable footprint?

Re: Scientists brew cannabis using modified beer yeast

#30

Post by Broken_Hippo » Mon, Mar 04, 2019, 9:06 AM UTC

olefoo wrote: post #3

THC and CBD is kind of meh. The real fun (for perverse values of fun) is when someone starts making heroin starter that can reliably turn sugar into enough opiate to risk an overdose. And then bootleg biologics and other patent drugs, I would totally buy a yeast that let me make my own Humira and let me control the supply; even if possessing it meant a hefty prison term.

THC and CBD have a much broader user base, though. Lots of folks will use one recreationally and will try the other medicinally before considering medical-grade heroin or even recreational heroin. Even in that case, occasional users are more willing to take a lesser amount by mouth and as a bonus, the yeast gives us another way to make legal opiods.

IIRC, we also use yeast to make insulin now.

Which does mean that things like Humira - or at least precursers to it - might some day be made like this. The bigger issue with Private Person making it rather than the labs is that Private Person doesn't always do safety procedures. Sure, You the Individual might, but random Private Person probably won't. Better to buy treatment from somewhere else and look for solutions to high drug prices in other ways until we can make this safe for the general public. (Also, if you are using Humira: Sorry about that bad health luck).