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The middle class is shrinking and in Chicago it’s almost gone

wbez.org

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Re: The middle class is shrinking and in Chicago it’s almost gone

#31
post #23

If the modern day poor are living an equivalent life style to the middle class from 50 years ago is that really a problem? That’s what part of this article seems to describe. Also would be interesting how much of this is attributable to the rise in prevalence of two income households. 2x a middle income would be considered wealthy by the measure used in this study

>If the modern day poor are living an equivalent life style to the middle class from 50 years ago is that really a problem?

If the middle class have largely collapsed into the poor, and the poor now live as the middle class did - that implies that for the formerly middle class there has been no growth in fifty years.

Re: The middle class is shrinking and in Chicago it’s almost gone

#32
post #23

If the modern day poor are living an equivalent life style to the middle class from 50 years ago is that really a problem? That’s what part of this article seems to describe. Also would be interesting how much of this is attributable to the rise in prevalence of two income households. 2x a middle income would be considered wealthy by the measure used in this study

I don't understand where you're asserting the article says that. The fact that neighborhoods whose per capita income was around the middle in 1970 are in the lower quintiles now does not mean that the 1970 middle class and the 2017 lower class have "equivalent lifestyles." It means the neighborhoods are poorer.

Re: The middle class is shrinking and in Chicago it’s almost gone

#33
post #23

If the modern day poor are living an equivalent life style to the middle class from 50 years ago is that really a problem? That’s what part of this article seems to describe. Also would be interesting how much of this is attributable to the rise in prevalence of two income households. 2x a middle income would be considered wealthy by the measure used in this study

You may have better car and TV than middle class from 50 years ago BUT if small emergency expense puts you in red you are not living middle class lifestyle.

Re: The middle class is shrinking and in Chicago it’s almost gone

#34
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chicago has been overwhelmingly governed by the Democrats, yet they things you've listed are usually pushed by the Republicans. And people leaving are usually going to the majority Republican states and cities. How can you explain this phenomenon?

easy. democrats do not want to live in states where the ideas they vote for are put into concrete projects. just look at california. they all going to texas to make it become like cali

This is a tiresome trope that needs to die.

California is a formerly Red state, Texas is nearly blue.

It's not that the situation is the opposite of what you describe, it's that your nostrums are utterly incoherent and describe nothing of any accuracy.

Re: The middle class is shrinking and in Chicago it’s almost gone

#35

Is this not the goal? Everyone seems to want this. Reduced taxes for the rich. Deregulation. A better "business environment" due to "small government". The continuation of employer-provided healthcare. Stricter intelectual property laws. Ever single domestic policy choice of late seems determined to do this. Middle america should be happy. They keep voting for this stuff.

Chicago has been overwhelmingly governed by the Democrats, yet they things you've listed are usually pushed by the Republicans. And people leaving are usually going to the majority Republican states and cities. How can you explain this phenomenon?

Chicago's problems are caused by things well beyond chicago. These local issues are driven by national choices. Elect all the best mayors you can, but America's economy is dominated by the national government, and to a lesser extent states. Chicago's problems will be solved when the nation breaks free of the ussual squabbles and opts to resolve social issues rather than scream dogma at each other.

Re: The middle class is shrinking and in Chicago it’s almost gone

#36
There is one very key issue here that is often overlooked. Here are two datums. The first [1] is Chicago community areas by per capita income. The second [2] is the same areas by fertility rate. There is an extremely strong correlation between these two datums. This holds everywhere from our world at large, to individual countries, to even community areas within an arbitrary city in the US. The areas with the lowest fertility rate is "Loop" with a fertility rate of 24.3 and a per capita income of $65,526. The area with the highest fertility rate is South Lawndale with a fertility rate of 99.6, more than 400% that of Loop. And they have a per capita income of $10,402.

While there may be some exceptions, they are indeed the exception. This holds true everywhere. These [3] are data for the US as a whole contrasting fertility vs income. Once again those earning less than $10,000 have a fertility rate more than 20 points higher (150%) the rate of those earning $200k+ per year. And there is a disconcertingly smooth gradient in between. As an aside there are also strong links between fertility and low education and high religiosity as well as low income.

Think about what this means for each generation of children. An ever larger portion of children end up coming from these families with low income, low education, and high religiosity. And now this even larger portion of society will go on to spread their genes in a comparable way meaning you'll see an even higher chunk of children from the next generation coming from these groups. Poverty gets turned into a virus. Bringing people out of poverty might be a solution if not for the fact that then when people emerge from poverty, they stop having as many children.

And another issue here is that fertility rate understates the issue! When one group has the same number of children but has them younger, this has a direct effect on 'real' fertility rates. Imagine there are two groups with an identical fertility rate. However, one has children at 15 years of age on average, and another on 30 (using these numbers only for convenient math). By the time the 30 group has had their child the 15 group has had a child, and that child is now also having a child! You have the exact same fertility rate on paper, but in terms of population impact the young group has a 100% greater fertility rate.

Ultimately people who can in no way expect to be able to provide even a half decent upbringing for children need to stop having so many children. At the same time people who actually can afford to help provide a great life for a new generation need to stop being so self centered and do just that. Until that happens what do people expect to see? You're going to see poverty spreading rapidly even if it was holding completely level simply because you'll see more new people in poor families.

Keep in mind the twisted nature of exponential growth. If you have a population of 10,000,000,000 with a fertility rate of 2 and then a population of 10 with a fertility rate of 4, that population of 10 will become the majority and in the longrun approach becoming 100% of the population. You cannot overstate the relevance of fertility rates if you at all care about socioeconomic issues.

[1] - https://data.cityofchicago.org/Health-Human-Services/Census-...

[2] - https://data.cityofchicago.org/Health-Human-Services/Public-...

[3] - https://www.statista.com/statistics/241530/birth-rate-by-fam...

Re: The middle class is shrinking and in Chicago it’s almost gone

#37
post #29

How is the middle class in the US in general? This is completely anecdotal and based on random strangers on the internet, so it may be wrong, but Americans seem more careful with their money today than they did 15 years ago. I buy a lot of board games, and I’ve noticed how discussions on $100 kickstarters have started being about how it could break someone’s budget. I’m personally part of the Scandinavian middle clas…

The article's title = "The Middle Class Is Shrinking Everywhere — In Chicago It’s Almost Gone"

Re: The middle class is shrinking and in Chicago it’s almost gone

#38
post #23

If the modern day poor are living an equivalent life style to the middle class from 50 years ago is that really a problem? That’s what part of this article seems to describe. Also would be interesting how much of this is attributable to the rise in prevalence of two income households. 2x a middle income would be considered wealthy by the measure used in this study

Remember to blame theire character, vices and genetics for a full retro aristocratic statement.

Re: The middle class is shrinking and in Chicago it’s almost gone

#40
We should be careful with maps like this of Chicago, since the time period we're talking about (1970-) coincides with the phasing out of redlining, which kept black families out of white stronghold neighborhoods. It could just be that what you're looking at is the gentrification of the north side and "white flight" into the suburbs.

Also, the numbers for this map don't sync up with the "rich blocks, poor blocks" census maps of Chicago. For instance, these maps appear to show Portage Park and Jefferson Park as low-income neighborhoods; that's not what the 2010 census map shows (substantially above the state median!), nor what anyone would expect if they were familiar with those neighborhoods, which are both middle class enclaves. In the 2010 census maps, as soon as Austin gives way to Belmont-Cragin, we're back into middle class neighborhoods on the west side.

This map also has Mt. Greenwood as a poor neighborhood. Unless we suddenly stopped paying cops and firefighters, that seems pretty unlikely. Someone else familiar with the city got an idea of what's going on here?

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