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DNA reveals we are all genetic mutts

news.harvard.edu

21–30 of 68 posts

Re: DNA reveals we are all genetic mutts

#21
Genetics also show that India’s caste system, previously thought to have developed under colonial rule, was in place thousands of years earlier.

“Colonial rule” means British rule presumably. I always assumed the caste system long pre-dated it, considering how entrenched it seems to be.

Re: DNA reveals we are all genetic mutts

#22
post #16
post #12

> “No population is, or ever could be, pure,” Why this obsession with 'purity'? Isn't it obvious that, despite none being pure, some populations are more closely related?

you get extra points if you can dress your scientific story as "speaking out against racism".

not sure why you were downvoted, this is exactly why they mentioned purity.

Re: DNA reveals we are all genetic mutts

#23
of course we are all mutts, we all evolved from bacteria. the question is the relative purity. "is the race pure from this period to this period" is what people mean when they mention purity. When a jew chooses a mate, they are only concerned if their mate has pure jewish ancestry from the last 2000 years.

Re: DNA reveals we are all genetic mutts

#24
post #13
post #6

I wonder how many of these genetic migrations were peaceful.

probably very few, if the old testament or the huge proportion of ancient skeletons that died violent deaths serve as any guide. which is why I think this story by Reich is very tone deaf. It's hard to see how a 90% population replacement promotes feelings of unity and hand-holding. One imagines a superposition of a video feed of the invasion of the steppe-people on horseback, stampeding the native defenses, cutting…

Tone deaf indeed. It seems common for people not to ascribe a full measure of humanity to humans from the (distant enough) past. Thought exercise: are there any large-scale population replacements happening today, and how do people feel about that? Surely not a kumbaya feeling I'd bet.

Re: DNA reveals we are all genetic mutts

#25
post #12

> “No population is, or ever could be, pure,” Why this obsession with 'purity'? Isn't it obvious that, despite none being pure, some populations are more closely related?

It's a rebuke of the false trope of the purity of racial ancestry which has persisted in many human societies for centuries, occasionally manifesting in the form of events like the Holocaust.

Because that trope has sadly persisted to this day in some quarters, it's falsehood needs to be continually exposed, especially by sciences such as biological anthropology, which were once used to promulgate it.

Re: DNA reveals we are all genetic mutts

#26
post #25
post #12

> “No population is, or ever could be, pure,” Why this obsession with 'purity'? Isn't it obvious that, despite none being pure, some populations are more closely related?

It's a rebuke of the false trope of the purity of racial ancestry which has persisted in many human societies for centuries, occasionally manifesting in the form of events like the Holocaust. Because that trope has sadly persisted to this day in some quarters, it's falsehood needs to be continually exposed, especially by sciences such as biological anthropology, which were once used to promulgate it.

Actually, it's my impression that some Jewish groups have done a pretty good job at maintaining racial purity. In some cases, leading to ~frequent homozygousity for some nasty recessive mutations.

I don't know the specifics, but I've read that only certified Jews can officially marry in Israel. And the standards are so high that many "Jewish" immigrants don't qualify.

Now that we have DNA testing, I wonder if that will become the standard.

Re: DNA reveals we are all genetic mutts

#27
post #21

Genetics also show that India’s caste system, previously thought to have developed under colonial rule, was in place thousands of years earlier. “Colonial rule” means British rule presumably. I always assumed the caste system long pre-dated it, considering how entrenched it seems to be.

The British exploited it, and under them aspects of it became more rigid, but it long predates them.

Re: DNA reveals we are all genetic mutts

#28
post #23

of course we are all mutts, we all evolved from bacteria. the question is the relative purity. "is the race pure from this period to this period" is what people mean when they mention purity. When a jew chooses a mate, they are only concerned if their mate has pure jewish ancestry from the last 2000 years.

That doesn't equate to "relative purity" at all. The number of ancestors someone has 66 generations in the past (approx 2000 years) is enormous. We can get around this by making value judgements that say "only the direct matrilineal line ancestors count" or "only the direct patrilineal line ancestors count", but ideas like that are absolutely human value judgements made as a reaction to the overwhelming complexity above, and have no basis in biology. These value or worth of those judgements are also artificially enforced and were not robustly adhered to historically. We are indeed all mutts, and every credible analysis for the last century has shown "race purity" is an abstraction that is absurd to the point of lunacy.

Re: DNA reveals we are all genetic mutts

#29

> A similar prehistory occurred in the Iberian Peninsula where a third population, also arrived from the Steppes, joined the hunter-gather and farmer groups. In this case, DNA research shows that the third population was exclusively male: While only 40 percent of the population about 6,000 years ago comes from the Steppes, 100 percent of the Y chromosomes do. This doesn't say what the author wants it to say. If 100%…

> were exterminated

or expelled, or otherwise prevented from being allowed to breed.

Re: DNA reveals we are all genetic mutts

#30
post #29

> A similar prehistory occurred in the Iberian Peninsula where a third population, also arrived from the Steppes, joined the hunter-gather and farmer groups. In this case, DNA research shows that the third population was exclusively male: While only 40 percent of the population about 6,000 years ago comes from the Steppes, 100 percent of the Y chromosomes do. This doesn't say what the author wants it to say. If 100%…

> were exterminated or expelled, or otherwise prevented from being allowed to breed.

Such as castrated.
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