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Is Ethical A.I. Even Possible?

nytimes.com

31–40 of 100 posts

Re: Is Ethical A.I. Even Possible?

#32
post #26

Ethics is subjective. If ethics could be codified I think we'd have one ruleset everyone agrees on. The article mentions trying to have a human enforce ethics, but then that person has to be an example of ethical excellence; something you can't test for. And in the end, they say every man has his price, so no. I don't think "ethical AI" is possible. I think "ruthlessly efficient AI" is the goal. Maybe it should only…

> Ethics is subjective

I'm really glad you raised this point.

I don't know if there's a uniquely good ethic or not. But for sure there's no consensus about what constitutes ethical behavior.

It drives me crazy when companies make preachy policy statements that beg this question.

Re: Is Ethical A.I. Even Possible?

#34
post #26

Ethics is subjective. If ethics could be codified I think we'd have one ruleset everyone agrees on. The article mentions trying to have a human enforce ethics, but then that person has to be an example of ethical excellence; something you can't test for. And in the end, they say every man has his price, so no. I don't think "ethical AI" is possible. I think "ruthlessly efficient AI" is the goal. Maybe it should only…

What's even worse, ethics vary from culture to culture and tend to change over time.

Re: Is Ethical A.I. Even Possible?

#36
post #26

Ethics is subjective. If ethics could be codified I think we'd have one ruleset everyone agrees on. The article mentions trying to have a human enforce ethics, but then that person has to be an example of ethical excellence; something you can't test for. And in the end, they say every man has his price, so no. I don't think "ethical AI" is possible. I think "ruthlessly efficient AI" is the goal. Maybe it should only…

Ruthlessly efficient AI is the next "big stick". Nuclear weapons brought us relatively close to world peace (after burning up hundreds of thousands of people and scaring the whole world shitless) maybe ruthless AI can do the same. I'm not particularly eager to see what an AI arms race and cold war looks like though.

Things are decent enough right now, it could be a lot worse; do the upsides of creating ruthless AI justify the risks? Is it an eventuality anyway? At this stage could we conceivably prevent it?

Re: Is Ethical A.I. Even Possible?

#37
post #26

Ethics is subjective. If ethics could be codified I think we'd have one ruleset everyone agrees on. The article mentions trying to have a human enforce ethics, but then that person has to be an example of ethical excellence; something you can't test for. And in the end, they say every man has his price, so no. I don't think "ethical AI" is possible. I think "ruthlessly efficient AI" is the goal. Maybe it should only…

> If ethics could be codified I think we'd have one ruleset everyone agrees on.

People want to deeply believe this as true. I find it false because I see free will as an illusion. Majority of people think free will exists. Agreement on ethics cannot exist with this conflict because it inherently effects morality.

Re: Is Ethical A.I. Even Possible?

#38
post #22

Is an ethical hammer even possible?

Does a hammer make decisions?

Does an AI (as we have them now)? If I give someone a paper and say "wait a day then follow these instructions", I'm making the decisions, not them, even if the paper has branching logic like "if it's morning, call Alice but if it's afternoon call Bob."

Re: Is Ethical A.I. Even Possible?

#39
post #26

Ethics is subjective. If ethics could be codified I think we'd have one ruleset everyone agrees on. The article mentions trying to have a human enforce ethics, but then that person has to be an example of ethical excellence; something you can't test for. And in the end, they say every man has his price, so no. I don't think "ethical AI" is possible. I think "ruthlessly efficient AI" is the goal. Maybe it should only…

Also important is that both Government and Industry are often intentionally unethical such that neither would actually want ethical AI to be the standard.

* You can't ethically undermine a democratically elected government for a dictator who will better fit your economic interests.

* You can't ethically avoid health and privacy laws just enough that you make more irregardless of legal fees.

* You can't ethically discriminate hiring efforts based on race and gender.

* You can't ethically discriminate against employees with families.

Re: Is Ethical A.I. Even Possible?

#40
post #18
post #4

No. And if you think yes, you are probably deceiving yourself about your own ethical abilities.

What is unethical about a farmer using AI to figure out the best arrangement of his crops to maximize the food he produces, maintain his land quality, and minimize his environmental impact?

Nothing. But what about when said farmer buys Farm AI 2.0 that also optimizes the livestock side of his farm. The AI has determined it's more efficient to pack cubes into a barn than keep them out in the pasture (the cubes contain chickens or pigs). Now the farmer upgrades to Farm AI 3.0 which also optimizes the business side of his farm. And it decides to fire a bunch of farm hands, perhaps replacing them with cheaper robots or aliens. The farmer sips his lemonade, absolved of guilt for the decisions the AI has made.
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