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Huawei Facts: An open letter to the US media

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Re: Huawei Facts: An open letter to the US media

#91

Post by speedplane »

iforgotpassword wrote: post #90
leereeves wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd support any country/region building its own tech infrastructure. Europe should really do that if it wants to be a global power. But if your choice is between being spied on by the US or by China, why would you prefer China?

I wouldn't. I think they're both a bad choice. It's just that the media seems to exclusively focus on huawei. And I can somewhat understand the American media doing that, but it's no different here. We've had like what, three Cisco backdoors in the last couple weeks, but who besides tech gave a shit? Actually, there isn't anything published yet that would suggest huawei products contain any. Nothing besides "they're…

The big difference between U.S/Cisco and China/Huawei is that in the U.S., the government broke into Cisco's systems without their help or consent. In contrast, it is largely understood that Huawei freely assists and cooperates with the Chinese government. The combination of a major tech provider with a powerful government provides too much temptation for abuse.

Re: Huawei Facts: An open letter to the US media

#92

Post by apexalpha »

dreamcompiler wrote: post #35

Huawei was created as a front organization for China's intelligence service. This has been known for years; long before the Iran deal. We know it and they deny it. That's how the game has always been played with respect to Huawei. Other Chinese companies like Lenovo have exhibited tendencies to spy, but AFAIK only Huawei originated as essentially an arm of the Chinese CIA. That's what makes Huawei different.

God I would love any form of backup or source on that statement.

Re: Huawei Facts: An open letter to the US media

#93

Post by iforgotpassword »

speedplane wrote: post #91
iforgotpassword wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't. I think they're both a bad choice. It's just that the media seems to exclusively focus on huawei. And I can somewhat understand the American media doing that, but it's no different here. We've had like what, three Cisco backdoors in the last couple weeks, but who besides tech gave a shit? Actually, there isn't anything published yet that would suggest huawei products contain any. Nothing besides "they're…

The big difference between U.S/Cisco and China/Huawei is that in the U.S., the government broke into Cisco's systems without their help or consent. In contrast, it is largely understood that Huawei freely assists and cooperates with the Chinese government. The combination of a major tech provider with a powerful government provides too much temptation for abuse.

Both methods succeed. At that point it's just choosing between plague and cholera.

Re: Huawei Facts: An open letter to the US media

#94

Post by speedplane »

iforgotpassword wrote: post #93
speedplane wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The big difference between U.S/Cisco and China/Huawei is that in the U.S., the government broke into Cisco's systems without their help or consent. In contrast, it is largely understood that Huawei freely assists and cooperates with the Chinese government. The combination of a major tech provider with a powerful government provides too much temptation for abuse.

Both methods succeed. At that point it's just choosing between plague and cholera.

That's a ridiculous equivalence. It's like saying a government backed army and a guy with a gun are the same because they can both shoot people.

Re: Huawei Facts: An open letter to the US media

#95

Post by sovok_x »

natch wrote: post #48
gonvaled wrote: post #33

Americans complaining about spying by other governments, even if true, would be the top of hypochresy. It is so blatantly clear that the motivations to fight Huawei are mainly because of losing the technology race, that it is not even funny. That the US pretends to dictate to free countries what they should buy or sanction (Iran) is not cool. That the US complains about state intervention when its whole technology le…

>You know what? Just let the world be. So don't comment then, if you want to let the world be. >because of losing the technology race It's not that US companies are "losing the technology race." If you read accounts from actual employees of partners, contractors, and others in the industry who work with Huawei, what you will read is that apparently Huawei has set up systems and incentives for copying and stealing tec…

>If you read accounts from actual employees of partners

I'd like to read those! Where can I find the direct cites or even comprehensive review with them (that didn't mystically pop up on the Net within the last year period)? Google seem to fail me.

Re: Huawei Facts: An open letter to the US media

#96

Post by Theodores »

jake_the_third wrote: post #20
hnmonkey wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're stating that they're being singled out for just doing business and that businesses are just afraid of losing money. You seem to be ignoring the trade secret theft, IP theft, multiple intelligence agencies investigating them and stating that their hardware shouldn't be used, practically being an arm of the Chinese military intelligence, and probably more I'm forgetting. Seems like a very disingenuous argument t…

> multiple intelligence agencies investigating them and stating that their hardware shouldn't be used, practically being an arm of the Chinese military intelligence Has anyone come forward with /any/ hard evidence that implicates huawei spying on their customers? This is my biggest gripe in this whole mess. The fact that no evidence has surfaced yet, despite how easily obtainable it would be for govs, indicates to me…

[flagged]

Re: Huawei Facts: An open letter to the US media

#97

Post by izacus »

leereeves wrote: post #60
izacus wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pretty much answer to all of this is yes - terrorist blacklists powered by cameras and surveillance in public, Guantanamo Bay with prisoners without due process and oversight, police killing black people without punishment and military industrial complex lobbying established government all exist. From the outside, USA with its more noticably overbearing propaganda or China with its disregard for US set morality don't…

The US isn't perfect, but the events you're talking about are in no way comparable to imprisoning a million Uighurs in camps. Or executing Falun Gong practitioners and harvesting their organs. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-45474279 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organ_harvesting_from_Falun_Go...

It's not, but putting up a moral argument based on "hey, we're SLIGHTLY less evil than China because the scale of same crimes are smaller!" is still a bit wierd.

You can argue many other avenues (like having better quality of life if we stay aligned with US vs. China), but doing moral handwringing about Huawei after Snowden's leaks and failings of current US government is a bit hypocritical.

Re: Huawei Facts: An open letter to the US media

#98

Post by izacus »

leereeves wrote: post #85
iforgotpassword wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As it stands right now I actually feel the US has a much stronger influence on Europe, which is what I'm concerned with. Not anything those two countries do at home. Considering how there's a backdoor revealed in Cisco products every other day I already know who I don't want to supply our 5G infrastructure.

I'd support any country/region building its own tech infrastructure. Europe should really do that if it wants to be a global power. But if your choice is between being spied on by the US or by China, why would you prefer China?

> But if your choice is between being spied on by the US or by China, why would you prefer China?

My only argument here would be that choosing China means we're choosing equipment where everyone involved knows that due diligence must be made to keep spying out and communication channels secured. I feel like this is not done enough when using US equipment and has exposed us to too much risk, considering the increasing hostility of current US government and its also increasing push to leverage spying to attack our companies.

Re: Huawei Facts: An open letter to the US media

#99

Post by izacus »

threeseed wrote: post #75
izacus wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pretty much answer to all of this is yes - terrorist blacklists powered by cameras and surveillance in public, Guantanamo Bay with prisoners without due process and oversight, police killing black people without punishment and military industrial complex lobbying established government all exist. From the outside, USA with its more noticably overbearing propaganda or China with its disregard for US set morality don't…

You are either ignorant or disingenuous. 23m Chinese have been banned from buying plane or train tickets based on their social score. Show me anything in the US that is remotely equivalent. Show me a re-education camp in the US where tens of millions are being detained. Is Guantanomo Bay even remotely the same ?

You're pretty much now relativizing based on scale. When I get locked up and harassed without any kind of due process by an American customs official (because economic ties require me to travel to US), I really don't care what China does. And based on my few last trips, the Americans have been significantly more hostile to me on the border than the Chinese.

It seems that some European countries are already reacting to this needless hostility by slowly realigning themselves to China: https://www.economist.com/briefing/2018/10/04/chinese-invest...

We're in for some interesting times.

Re: Huawei Facts: An open letter to the US media

#100

Post by ksec »

kingosticks wrote: post #80
ksec wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In terms of "technology", there are nothing, but Huawei do have the some of the best if not the 5G Base Station and 5G implementation. And they are actually cheaper. Lots of propaganda materials or internet trolls, or paid keyboard warrior tends to name Huawei being the No. 1 in 5G patents, (which is not true) bringing the most innovation and doing majority of the 5G standard works ( Which is again not true ). And th…

The hardware refresh for 5G has only just started in a few counties right now (Korea, China and the US). Everyone else will get there but its not happening yet. No serious operator is doing a software upgrade for this. The main driver for 5G is increased bandwidth and that comes from new boxes throughout the network. The investment for this is huge and long-lasting. And while it is harder to lose a customer, sure, ri…

>Operators will have some Huawei stuff but I don't known anyone (outside of China) that has built their network on them so ripping that out is a non-issue. Some have already done just that.

I assume there is a missing word built their network soley on them. Vodafone, Three, are two big Operators that has some Huawei deployed in EU. It is rare that any Operator relies on one single Telecom Equipment Vendor. Even China Mobile have both Nokia and Ericsson, as it was part of the deal between EU and China.

>No serious operator is doing a software upgrade for this.

They were deployed as part of the Capacity expansion in 4G LTE Massive MIMO. This is strictly Sub 6Ghz, all those mmWave are totally different thing. May be deployed isn't the "correct" word. Widely tested, especially in places where an Operator uses TDD spectrum.

>I have no idea why Samsung even get a mention. That confused me.

Samsung is a relatively new comer to telecom equipment. New in terms of Public knowledge, they were doing it during LTE era but never seems to get anywhere internationally. They are even smaller than ZTE, which is one reason you don't seen any TE market share dictate any special note on them. But they have been active on 5G ever since the possibility of Huawei Contract replacement. I have no information on how they perform in real life though. And I have yet to see any Operators had testing notes using Samsung's Equipment. But knowing how competitive they are, I was hoping they would do well.

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