Can this process really be automated in any way that Google would not consider black hat?
Ask Patio11: Why don't you make SEO tools?
11–20 of 31 posts
Re: Ask Patio11: Why don't you make SEO tools?
#12I don't mean to be a jerk, and I'm going to be downvoted into oblivion for this, but I don't think Patrick is the brilliant SEO wizard some people on here make him out to be, certainly not anywhere near a Rand Fishkin type level. He's an excellent writer and marketer, but it's not like he's privy to some magical SEO techniques that would explode SEO traffic. I would be surprised if he uses SEO tools much himself. Fro…
> and I'm going to be downvoted into oblivion for this
From the HN guidelines:
Please don't bait other users by inviting them to downmod you.
Re: Ask Patio11: Why don't you make SEO tools?
#13I don't mean to be a jerk, and I'm going to be downvoted into oblivion for this, but I don't think Patrick is the brilliant SEO wizard some people on here make him out to be, certainly not anywhere near a Rand Fishkin type level. He's an excellent writer and marketer, but it's not like he's privy to some magical SEO techniques that would explode SEO traffic. I would be surprised if he uses SEO tools much himself. Fro…
> and I'm going to be downvoted into oblivion for this From the HN guidelines: Please don't bait other users by inviting them to downmod you.
I feel this is different. patio11 is one of the most popular members of the community (probably the most popular, aside from pg himself) and to disagree with an estimation of his value is to violate the norms of the community. il is simply signaling that he recognizes the norms of the community and is voicing a dissenting opinion: in this case, perhaps the appropriate social maneuver.
I eagerly welcome discussion on this topic.
Re: Ask Patio11: Why don't you make SEO tools?
#14Earlier quoted context omitted.
> and I'm going to be downvoted into oblivion for this From the HN guidelines: Please don't bait other users by inviting them to downmod you.
I feel this is different. patio11 is one of the most popular members of the community (probably the most popular, aside from pg himself) and to disagree with an estimation of his value is to violate the norms of the community. il is simply signaling that he recognizes the norms of the community and is voicing a dissenting opinion: in this case, perhaps the appropriate social maneuver. I eagerly welcome discussion on…
I don't think this is different at all.
His comment wouldn't lose anything, but rather win in terms of readability, by removing those 10 words ("and I'm going to be downvoted into oblivion for this"). Those words are simply unnecessary and unobjective. They don't provide anything except making the comment sound more sensational than it actually is.
There are good reasons for this guideline, and I think those reasons apply to everyone, including patio11 and pg.
Re: Ask Patio11: Why don't you make SEO tools?
#15I have done loads of SEO research and no tool comes close seomoz.org . They have created their OWN index similar to that of google's . I would make a similar tool or maybe even better
Re: Ask Patio11: Why don't you make SEO tools?
#16I used to think there was some magic sauce to SEO - that only good content with proper promotion would get high rankings. I've worked with SEO consultants on every level. I've worked with two separate individuals who are extremely well known (sorry NDA prevents sharings names), hired writers, and outsourced work overseas. For my particular industry, which i won't share because it will identify me, my content is pretty much un-linkable. You don't want to talk about it. I paid a writer for years to write top quality content that is actually useful to users and promoted it accordingly. Because good content is what Google wants, right? Wrong.
After spending well over $100k in SEO i can tell you sadly the most effective tactic has been spam. Yep, tons of links on sites, setting up gateway pages that are focused on particular keywords, spamming social sites with links, setting up blogs to target keywords, etc.. I've hired/fired about 5 different companies in India and finally found one that is working magic for us.
Google's algorithm is not a mystery - most 'SEO' people will try to sell you some snake oil. I was paying 10k a month to a top name SEO consultant (very popular SEO book, well respected) and never felt so cheated in my life. Beyond the basics of SEO like semantic structure of your HTML and URL's - SEO is primarily a popularity contest.
Re: Ask Patio11: Why don't you make SEO tools?
#17I used to think there was some magic sauce to SEO - that only good content with proper promotion would get high rankings. I've worked with SEO consultants on every level. I've worked with two separate individuals who are extremely well known (sorry NDA prevents sharings names), hired writers, and outsourced work overseas. For my particular industry, which i won't share because it will identify me, my content is prett…
thank you for confirming my suspicions
Re: Ask Patio11: Why don't you make SEO tools?
#18I don't mean to be a jerk, and I'm going to be downvoted into oblivion for this, but I don't think Patrick is the brilliant SEO wizard some people on here make him out to be, certainly not anywhere near a Rand Fishkin type level. He's an excellent writer and marketer, but it's not like he's privy to some magical SEO techniques that would explode SEO traffic. I would be surprised if he uses SEO tools much himself. Fro…
I don't think Patrick would claim to be a "brilliant SEO wizard". He's made mention of friends who are.
Patrick's SEO abilities are notable on HN because he has managed to run a business quantifiably tied to SEO and search advertising. He's hasn't just "done" SEO. Lots of HN people can claim that. He's successfully taken a product to market with it. That's impressive.
Referring to Patrick as an SEO undervalues him. SEO isn't really his schtick. Engineered product marketing is. Engineered marketing includes SEO, but also A/B testing, metrics, optimization, and a grab bag of other "lean startup" ideas.
(Also, in case it isn't obvious, Patrick is popular here because he writes thoughtfully, helpfully, and often.)
Re: Ask Patio11: Why don't you make SEO tools?
#19I used to think there was some magic sauce to SEO - that only good content with proper promotion would get high rankings. I've worked with SEO consultants on every level. I've worked with two separate individuals who are extremely well known (sorry NDA prevents sharings names), hired writers, and outsourced work overseas. For my particular industry, which i won't share because it will identify me, my content is prett…
>Google's algorithm is not a mystery - most 'SEO' people will try to sell you some snake oil.
Google's current ranking algorithm is a mystery. Sure we have some good clues to go on but outside of Google's own info (which on at least one occassion I've considered to be a deliberate attempt to mislead, though I might be wrong) or industrial espionage the only way to determine the nature of the algo is to experiment (or use other's experiments).
Yes they have a heavy reliance on site authority and the external link structure but this is not all there is.
Good content is arguably what Google wants because it is how they mine their product (people) to be delivered to their customers. Whether their algo is optimised to deliver good content is a separate issue - you clearly think not.
Haven't you been stung with any of the algo updates?
Re: Ask Patio11: Why don't you make SEO tools?
#20I used to think there was some magic sauce to SEO - that only good content with proper promotion would get high rankings. I've worked with SEO consultants on every level. I've worked with two separate individuals who are extremely well known (sorry NDA prevents sharings names), hired writers, and outsourced work overseas. For my particular industry, which i won't share because it will identify me, my content is prett…
>Google's algorithm is not a mystery - most 'SEO' people will try to sell you some snake oil. Google's current ranking algorithm is a mystery. Sure we have some good clues to go on but outside of Google's own info (which on at least one occassion I've considered to be a deliberate attempt to mislead, though I might be wrong) or industrial espionage the only way to determine the nature of the algo is to experiment (or…
I've also observed that off site factors (incoming links) trump onsite factors (optimizing content and producing more of it). I think Google feels that it's way easier for a black hat to come up with great SEO-focused content then it is for them to engineer a lot of authority links, even if the latter is becoming easier and easier all the time.