San Francisco median one bedroom apartment rent hits a new peak of $3,690 • Hacker News Board

Re: San Francisco median one bedroom apartment rent hits a new peak of $3,690

#91

Post by allahreturns » Sun, Mar 03, 2019, 6:43 AM UTC

yingw787 wrote: post #34

I think high rent prices are bad for a number of reasons: Less flexibility in starting a company: You can't choose to bootstrap unless you do it as a side hustle at a megacorp, and it's hard to not compete with a megacorp because it does everything. You have to take VC funding and follow VC rules to some degree, and it may not be a direction you wish to follow. This is a feedback loop. Oligopsony employment condition…

So it's not bad

Growing up in Berlin I was always depressed because of stupid/dumb people who lived around me.

I wanted to move into a neighborhood where only smart people lived.

This dream came true when I moved to SF. Here prices are so high only most smart people can afford to work and live here.

You don't understand value of this kind of economic segregation untill you spend a few week in poor income localities.

People have different beliefs, it's hard to make people act in a same way.

But we've found that money is one such thing where most people agree if not all. So why is it bad that people who collectively value money are able to afford SF and those who don't can't afford.

We find security among a group which values same thing as us. And most people in SF value meeting economic demand, making money and lots of money.

Re: San Francisco median one bedroom apartment rent hits a new peak of $3,690

#92

Post by mrep » Sun, Mar 03, 2019, 6:45 AM UTC

stale2002 wrote: post #53

towaway1138 wrote: post #48

When headhunters contact me about SF (or even Bay Area) jobs, I just scoff and shut them down. If you're fresh out of school, no family, and willing to live in a hovel for some interesting life experience, sure. But if you're an adult, it's no way to live. And putting kids through it is frankly unethical.

Well it depends. I'll agree with you that if you work at a rando tech startup, the costs of living are going to be quite high, and make it probably not worth it. But , the whole equation changes if you are working for a big 5 tech company, or hot unicorn company. These companies will pay you double what the rando startups pay. Who really cares if you are paying 40k a year on rent, if your total compensation breaks 25…

> And getting 250k+ as an engineer, with a couple years experience, is only really possible in the Bay area.

Seattle and NYC can also easily reach that.

Source: I'm in Seattle making 210k 3 years out of college.

Re: San Francisco median one bedroom apartment rent hits a new peak of $3,690

#93

Post by allahreturns » Sun, Mar 03, 2019, 6:45 AM UTC

whatshisface wrote: post #81

yingw787 wrote: post #34

I think high rent prices are bad for a number of reasons: Less flexibility in starting a company: You can't choose to bootstrap unless you do it as a side hustle at a megacorp, and it's hard to not compete with a megacorp because it does everything. You have to take VC funding and follow VC rules to some degree, and it may not be a direction you wish to follow. This is a feedback loop. Oligopsony employment condition…

> all people deserve shelter as a basic human right I hear this a lot and it still makes absolutely no sense. Where will they get the shelter from? What if the builder doesn't want to build a house for that person? Is the plan to force the labor out of them? Every positive right that I have ever seen comes along with an implicit demand that somebody else become a slave.

> all people deserve shelter as a basic human right

No they don't.

You are saying that we must award same quality of life to both kind of people:

a) one who are meeting economic demand

b) who are failing to meet their economic expectation

Sorry but if you award the second group, you automatically demotivated first group to continue with their economic obligations.

Re: San Francisco median one bedroom apartment rent hits a new peak of $3,690

#94

Post by GhostVII » Sun, Mar 03, 2019, 6:45 AM UTC

Gibbon1 wrote: post #86

whatshisface wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> all people deserve shelter as a basic human right I hear this a lot and it still makes absolutely no sense. Where will they get the shelter from? What if the builder doesn't want to build a house for that person? Is the plan to force the labor out of them? Every positive right that I have ever seen comes along with an implicit demand that somebody else become a slave.

What will you do when it happens to you? That you have no place to live? Because it will.

What makes you think that will happen to them? Most people don't end up homeless at some point in their life.

Re: San Francisco median one bedroom apartment rent hits a new peak of $3,690

#95

Post by Cyclone_ » Sun, Mar 03, 2019, 6:46 AM UTC

isoskeles wrote: post #87

Cyclone_ wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Rent seekers who make building illegal"? I don't think it's the people seeking rent who would make building illegal.

"Rent seeking" is a specific term in economics referring to people who seek to extract wealth from the economy without adding to it in any way, e.g. "make building illegal" in order to force up the value of their own property. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rent_seeking

Thanks for sharing, did not know of that term, but I must say it's a rather confusing choice of words!

Re: San Francisco median one bedroom apartment rent hits a new peak of $3,690

#96

Post by whatshisface » Sun, Mar 03, 2019, 6:46 AM UTC

timcameronryan wrote: post #84

whatshisface wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> all people deserve shelter as a basic human right I hear this a lot and it still makes absolutely no sense. Where will they get the shelter from? What if the builder doesn't want to build a house for that person? Is the plan to force the labor out of them? Every positive right that I have ever seen comes along with an implicit demand that somebody else become a slave.

There's no shortage of builders. You can just compensate those workers with taxes. If you think taxes are also a form of slavery, that's a different discussion.

You can't fulfill a basic human right contingent on enough taxes coming in. If it's really a basic human right, insufficient revenues or unexpectedly high prices are not an excuse. If your country ran out of money, if the builders all started working for foreign companies, and if housing was really being treated like a human right, you'd have to make builders work without pay, or at least involuntarily.

Providing housing most of the time is just a program. Providing housing all of the time with no exceptions, like you would expect from a human right, involves some serious distortions of other values. That's the problem, people are using the word human right when they mean high priority. It's a high priority that I do my laundry, but if society were organized so that I did my laundry at all costs, if we were all convinced that a society where I did not do my laundry did not deserve to exist, then things would get pretty crazy.

Re: San Francisco median one bedroom apartment rent hits a new peak of $3,690

#97

Post by akjetma » Sun, Mar 03, 2019, 6:47 AM UTC

allahreturns wrote: post #91

yingw787 wrote: post #34

I think high rent prices are bad for a number of reasons: Less flexibility in starting a company: You can't choose to bootstrap unless you do it as a side hustle at a megacorp, and it's hard to not compete with a megacorp because it does everything. You have to take VC funding and follow VC rules to some degree, and it may not be a direction you wish to follow. This is a feedback loop. Oligopsony employment condition…

So it's not bad Growing up in Berlin I was always depressed because of stupid/dumb people who lived around me. I wanted to move into a neighborhood where only smart people lived. This dream came true when I moved to SF. Here prices are so high only most smart people can afford to work and live here. You don't understand value of this kind of economic segregation untill you spend a few week in poor income localities.…

man, this comment depressed the hell out of me.

Re: San Francisco median one bedroom apartment rent hits a new peak of $3,690

#98

Post by mamon » Sun, Mar 03, 2019, 6:47 AM UTC

yingw787 wrote: post #34

I think high rent prices are bad for a number of reasons: Less flexibility in starting a company: You can't choose to bootstrap unless you do it as a side hustle at a megacorp, and it's hard to not compete with a megacorp because it does everything. You have to take VC funding and follow VC rules to some degree, and it may not be a direction you wish to follow. This is a feedback loop. Oligopsony employment condition…

Most European countries already recognize that, to some extent. "Sidewalk evictions" are illegal, you (or municipality/local government) have to first provide some replacement apartment before renter can be evicted. Most town/cities have some pool of apartments for that very purpose. Of course those aparments are shitholes most of the time, but still. Of course in practice this protection does not work for everyone, and there are still homeless people in Europe.

Re: San Francisco median one bedroom apartment rent hits a new peak of $3,690

#99

Post by aidenn0 » Sun, Mar 03, 2019, 6:48 AM UTC

whatshisface wrote: post #81

yingw787 wrote: post #34

I think high rent prices are bad for a number of reasons: Less flexibility in starting a company: You can't choose to bootstrap unless you do it as a side hustle at a megacorp, and it's hard to not compete with a megacorp because it does everything. You have to take VC funding and follow VC rules to some degree, and it may not be a direction you wish to follow. This is a feedback loop. Oligopsony employment condition…

> all people deserve shelter as a basic human right I hear this a lot and it still makes absolutely no sense. Where will they get the shelter from? What if the builder doesn't want to build a house for that person? Is the plan to force the labor out of them? Every positive right that I have ever seen comes along with an implicit demand that somebody else become a slave.

Outside of the prison system, legal coercive labor isn't really a thing in the US.

The people building houses are working because they are paid and they prefer that to the existing social safety net.

Re: San Francisco median one bedroom apartment rent hits a new peak of $3,690

#100

Post by whatshisface » Sun, Mar 03, 2019, 6:48 AM UTC

allahreturns wrote: post #93

whatshisface wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> all people deserve shelter as a basic human right I hear this a lot and it still makes absolutely no sense. Where will they get the shelter from? What if the builder doesn't want to build a house for that person? Is the plan to force the labor out of them? Every positive right that I have ever seen comes along with an implicit demand that somebody else become a slave.

> all people deserve shelter as a basic human right No they don't. You are saying that we must award same quality of life to both kind of people: a) one who are meeting economic demand b) who are failing to meet their economic expectation Sorry but if you award the second group, you automatically demotivated first group to continue with their economic obligations.

On hackernews and other boards, a greater than sign followed by an italic section is how quotes are usually formatted. If you look closer you'll see that I was quoting the parent, not making the point myself.