Facebook’s global lobbying against data privacy laws • Hacker News Board

Re: Facebook’s global lobbying against data privacy laws

#31

Post by Spearchucker » Sat, Mar 02, 2019, 6:16 PM UTC

It's great that this is reported by The Guardian. What's missing is a way to communicate the same thing to the masses in a way that motivates them, i.e. somehow linking knowledge of this to a sense of loss or impending loss to the reader or user of Facebook.

Just on Sunday I had lunch with a friend who works at the ECB and asked disbelievingly whether phones and apps can really track your location or not.

So if Guardian readers with TWO PhDs don't get it, how are we going to educate a woman on the breadline with two kids, living in a shanty on the outskirts of Lilongwe?

Re: Facebook’s global lobbying against data privacy laws

#32

Post by sorokod » Sat, Mar 02, 2019, 7:27 PM UTC

pjc50 wrote: post #28

sorokod wrote: post #2

"Facebook... Used chief operating officer Sheryl Sandberg’s feminist memoir Lean In to “bond” with female European commissioners it viewed as hostile." and "the memo reveals that Sandberg’s feminist memoir was perceived as a lobbying tool by the Facebook team and a means of winning support from female legislators for Facebook’s wider agenda" cute.

If someone was looking for a genuine place to deploy the trite phrase "virtue signalling", this is what that actually looks like.

from https://leanin.org/book

In response to Sheryl’s 2010 TEDTalk on the ways women are held back—and the way we hold ourselves back—viewers around the world shared their own stories of struggle and success. This overwhelming response inspired Sheryl to write this book. In Lean In, she shares her personal stories, uses research to shine a light on gender differences, and offers practical advice to help women achieve their goals. The book challenges us to change the conversation from what women can’t do to what we can do, and serves as a rallying cry for us to work together to create a more equal world.

I guess that in a more equal world men and women can more equally act in a morally reprehensible way.

Re: Facebook’s global lobbying against data privacy laws

#33

Post by craigsmansion » Sat, Mar 02, 2019, 7:40 PM UTC

Spearchucker wrote: post #31

It's great that this is reported by The Guardian. What's missing is a way to communicate the same thing to the masses in a way that motivates them, i.e. somehow linking knowledge of this to a sense of loss or impending loss to the reader or user of Facebook. Just on Sunday I had lunch with a friend who works at the ECB and asked disbelievingly whether phones and apps can really track your location or not. So if Guard…

I fully agree it would be great if the masses would somehow absorb and process this information, but in this case I'd like to think the Guardian a very effective venue.

No politicians on a European level, especially female representatives, would want to be caught dead getting cosy with Facebook. Facebook lobbying efforts are effectively dead in the water for the EU for the moment.

Re: Facebook’s global lobbying against data privacy laws

#34

Post by cabalamat » Sat, Mar 02, 2019, 8:00 PM UTC

williamdclt wrote: post #22

cabalamat wrote: post #20

Some people, particularly on the left, are unconcerned about political censorship by Facebook, Google, Twitter, etc, figuring that they will only censor people the left don't like. But what when Facebook etc start censoring people who want big corporations to pay more tax or respect privacy? They are very likely to do this eventually (even if they are not doing so now), particularly in subtle ways like giving content…

> Some people, particularly on the left, are unconcerned about political censorship by Facebook, Google, Twitter, etc, figuring that they will only censor people the left don't like. Any source for that? That sounds like a gratuitous accusation

> Any source for that?

Does it need a source? I mean, can't it just be taken as trivially true, in the sense that "some people like sex and money" ought just to be taken as true?

Are you claiming that no-one on the left wants, for example, censorship of individuals such as Tommy Robinson? It is trivial to prove otherwise, for example this tweet from Tom Watson, the Deputy Leader of the Labour Party, stating:

> I have written to Google CEO @SundarPinchai calling on him, as a matter of urgency, to remove the YouTube page of Stephen Yaxley-Lennon, aka Tommy Robinson.

-- https://twitter.com/tom_watson/status/1101931566387941376

Re: Facebook’s global lobbying against data privacy laws

#35

Post by cabalamat » Sat, Mar 02, 2019, 8:03 PM UTC

kartan wrote: post #24

cabalamat wrote: post #20

Some people, particularly on the left, are unconcerned about political censorship by Facebook, Google, Twitter, etc, figuring that they will only censor people the left don't like. But what when Facebook etc start censoring people who want big corporations to pay more tax or respect privacy? They are very likely to do this eventually (even if they are not doing so now), particularly in subtle ways like giving content…

> Some people, particularly on the left, are unconcerned about political censorship by Facebook, Google, Twitter, etc, figuring that they will only censor people the left don't like. The article does not talk about censorship but privacy. That a corporation uses data to sell advertisements has nothing to do with personal expression and censorship. We can have a discussion about censorship when it's relevant. What has…

> We can have a discussion about censorship when it's relevant. What has to do your comment with the post?

Facebook's business model involves violating people's privacy.

Some governments might not want FB to do this. So FB are lobbying them to allow them to violate privacy.

Might it not, therefore, also be the case that FB will do other things to allow them to violate privacy?

And one of these things might be censoring politicians who want FB to respect privacy.

Re: Facebook’s global lobbying against data privacy laws

#36

Post by jos6 » Sat, Mar 02, 2019, 10:09 PM UTC

craigsmansion wrote: post #33

Spearchucker wrote: post #31

It's great that this is reported by The Guardian. What's missing is a way to communicate the same thing to the masses in a way that motivates them, i.e. somehow linking knowledge of this to a sense of loss or impending loss to the reader or user of Facebook. Just on Sunday I had lunch with a friend who works at the ECB and asked disbelievingly whether phones and apps can really track your location or not. So if Guard…

I fully agree it would be great if the masses would somehow absorb and process this information, but in this case I'd like to think the Guardian a very effective venue. No politicians on a European level, especially female representatives, would want to be caught dead getting cosy with Facebook. Facebook lobbying efforts are effectively dead in the water for the EU for the moment.

Facebook can prop up or destroy a politician in every EU country overnight by minor tweaks that no one will ever be able to detect. And for every politician that takes a tough stand there will be a politician who won't. They will actively put feelers out about their "flexibility" in return for social media "training/consulting services" for their campaigns before elections, funding for pet projects etc etc etc.

We are way past the point were anything can be done by politicians or the responsible press (both of whom have benefited from social media and have stuff to loose by being hardline). Things should have happened 3-4 years ago. Now we just wait it out till everyone learns lessons the hard way.

Niall Ferguson makes the case that this moment in time (transitioning from hierarchy to hyperconnectedness) has similarities to events that unfolded after the invention of the printing press. People remember the Reformation or Martin Luther as the positive outcome as information and connectedness suddenly exploded. But there were huge chaotic negative outcomes too - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_wars_of_religion

Educating the masses today is as hard as it was back then. Education requires a healthy environment and a good guide/teacher and time. In todays world assuming the press is going to fill this role is very unrealistic.

Re: Facebook’s global lobbying against data privacy laws

#37

Post by clydethefrog » Sun, Mar 03, 2019, 9:48 AM UTC

mc89 wrote: post #10

It's been a while since a Trump or Brexit type unexpected/unpredicted event that Facebook influenced has happened. As in nothing at a national scale. Does this mean the architecture is getting better? Or are we going to get hit by more randomness soon?

There was reporting last year about Facebook being a catalyst for spreading violence against the Rohingya in Myanmar.

Facebook owned Whatsapp also caused several so called Whatsapp lynchings in India based on rumors that were quickly spread via the app. Brazil's current president's campaign also used a succesful disinformation campaign via Whatsapp.

Re: Facebook’s global lobbying against data privacy laws

#38

Post by 50656E6973 » Sun, Mar 03, 2019, 9:54 PM UTC

pjc50 wrote: post #28

sorokod wrote: post #2

"Facebook... Used chief operating officer Sheryl Sandberg’s feminist memoir Lean In to “bond” with female European commissioners it viewed as hostile." and "the memo reveals that Sandberg’s feminist memoir was perceived as a lobbying tool by the Facebook team and a means of winning support from female legislators for Facebook’s wider agenda" cute.

If someone was looking for a genuine place to deploy the trite phrase "virtue signalling", this is what that actually looks like.

Can't help but wonder if there is a "trickle down" morality effect from the leaders of such powerful organizations like FB.

Can the character of executive leaders be echoed down throughout the organization all the way to its users?

Re: Facebook’s global lobbying against data privacy laws

#39

Post by dannykwells » Sun, Mar 03, 2019, 10:26 PM UTC

Serious question: how should we as informed individuals act towards our friends/family that work at Facebook? Is it like working at Blackwater or Haliburton, i.e. worthy of scorn or st least distance ? Or do we accept them and not talk about it and just have a nice time, even though they are actively undermining democracy as we speak?

Re: Facebook’s global lobbying against data privacy laws

#40

Post by renholder » Sun, Mar 03, 2019, 10:29 PM UTC

> “Sheryl took a firm approach and outlined that a decision on the data center was imminent. She emphasized that if we could not get comfort from the Canadian government on the jurisdiction issue, we had other options.” The minister supplied the agreement Facebook required by the end of the day, it notes.

As the old adage goes: Money talks.