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Prof Gives Lecture to Prove He Knows Students Cheated; Over 200 Students Confess

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Re: Prof Gives Lecture to Prove He Knows Students Cheated; Over 200 Students Confess

#121
post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why shouldn't a community of students be able to cache and reuse responses to cached and reused questions? Laziness begets laziness. I don't see how you can claim it's ethical for teachers to forfeit 1/2 of their job to a question cache. Cheating in this definition is using someone else's work to benefit yourself and by definition the teacher cheated too by using someone else's questions to form "his" alleged test. I…

Cheating in this definition is using someone else's work to benefit yourself and by definition the teacher cheated too by using someone else's questions to form "his" alleged test. That is a bizarre definition of cheating and shows that you don't understand the point of testing at all. The point of testing is to measure (perhaps crudely) students' understanding of what they are supposed to learn in the class. The tea…

So is any studying for a test acceptable, since it modifies the understanding you had before studying? I mean, we have to assume the materials being studied will contain the right answers to the questions on the test.

Are lecture notes cheating? The professor is likely to include answers to test questions in his lectures. I've had professors use in their lectures the exact questions — literally, not a word different — that would appear in the next test. Was I cheating by attending the lecture and learning what was taught there?

Where do we draw the line between smart studying and cheating if the professor makes no effort to keep the test questions a secret?

Re: Prof Gives Lecture to Prove He Knows Students Cheated; Over 200 Students Confess

#122

I'm a 5th year PhD student who is teaching a large (80 student) section of a course, this is the 4th course I've taught. I've also taken plenty of exams as a student, and they are still fresh in mind. I would want to know more information before I decided the students were cheating or not. The instructor refereed to an "exam room", and gave an hour range that the new exam could be taken. So the students are not all t…

"Writing a decent exam is surprisingly hard." I hope I don't come off as flippant, but you're shooting for a PhD, the most advanced degree you can hold (if I'm not mistaken); isn't "surprisingly hard" kind of the name of the game? I'm sure if you ask students, many of them would say taking the test is "surprisingly hard," are shortcuts justified for them too? I'm sure a building contractor will tell you keeping track…

I'm not interpreting your comment as flippant. :)

In terms of shortcuts, that would depend on what they were. Some are fine, others are not. E.g. 'borrowing' answers from other students on homework is a shortcut, but it's okay if the student understands the material in the end; cheating on an exam is not an okay shortcut.

"Surprisingly hard" is the name of the game. I mentioned that writing exams is hard to motivate why an instructor would use a test bank. At a research school (I'm at a research focused school), being an instructor is only a small part of a professors (or grad students) job. Using a test bank (from books/publishers or private ones) is considered to be fine, as it lets them focus more time on the things they "should" be doing. Many things that are considered okay in this context are abhorred in others, e.g. having grad students be primary instructors is okay here but would be taboo at a teaching focused school. Of course, most teaching focused schools don't have big grad programs.

Incidentally, I'm on track to graduate this year. I'm sending out academic job applications and I find myself more drawn to teaching schools than I thought I'd be.

Re: Prof Gives Lecture to Prove He Knows Students Cheated; Over 200 Students Confess

#123
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it's not provided to them...then it's cheating. The idea that students are only allowed to study from materials that are explicitly provided to them seems questionable. I would preface this with a statement of my own ignorance of the matter, if I weren't presently an engineering student. I have never encountered someone who said "reading material given to you by someone other than the professor is cheating."

So if, for example, a student hacks into the professor's computer and steals the test-question to study from, this is OK as long as it wasn't expressly forbidden? I'm not saying they should only study from materials that are provided... but in this case they were clearly using materials that they shouldn't have had access to.

Some actions have default moral and ethical values. Hacking into somebody's computer is assumed by default to be bad — it would be bad even if they hadn't intended to use the test for their class. Most actions, such as reading a sample test, are not as clear cut.

Re: Prof Gives Lecture to Prove He Knows Students Cheated; Over 200 Students Confess

#124
post #7

But was it really cheating? Some students have pointed out that the professor said repeatedly that he composed the tests himself. Given that, then plausibly, using example tests from other sources would be a legitimate preparation method. (For example, the SAT doesn't penalize people for reviewing lots of practice tests, because it's assumed the actual questions during a real test will be novel.) See: http://www.tech…

So, if it was known in previous semesters that a test bank was used, why such a large statistical aberration this time around? It seems implausible that 1/3rd of the class just happened to memorise the answers accurately, and indeed, the distribution suggests that another factor was in play this time around.

The first explanation for that that pops in to my mind is someone googling/searching/researching a question they saw in the exam that they didn't know the answer to and finding it as a part of a test bank, then realising all the other questions in the test bank were on the exam too. He tells someone, they tell someone and next semester 200 students have a copy of that test bank.

Re: Prof Gives Lecture to Prove He Knows Students Cheated; Over 200 Students Confess

#125
post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Your job as a teacher or as a presenter is to extend the available materials" I'm puzzled by this. Let's say you teach basic physics or algebra... how are you supposed to "extend" the material, particularly testing material? I always thought the benefits of having a teacher were: 1. Human contact 2. Ability to answer arbitrary questions in an instant 3. Ability to adapt lectures to the audience 4. Students in the pr…

Thinking like the instructor/presenter/seller quite clearly, though also remember to think like the student/purchaser, too. You're clearly familiar with running the process line and incremental improvements for yourself and optimizing your work, but are you equally comfortable being the widget that's being processed within the assembly line, and whether the widget is getting the best value? My trip down that educatio…

"are you equally comfortable being the widget that's being processed within the assembly line, and whether the widget is getting the best value?"

A valid point. There are many ways of learning though, and if you want instruction and materials personalized to you, those are available -- albeit at a much higher cost. And there are other, self-directed methods of learning that are a much lower cost than either method (e.g., going to a library, doing research online, etc.). [Aside: who pays the cost is a separate issue, but someone must pay it.]

Given that society is constrained by scarce resources, I think that re-using tests is a perfectly reasonable allocation of resources for many teaching situations. Other materials are re-used regularly, such as textbooks, and there's nothing personal about that. Would you say that using the same textbook as someone else turns you into a "widget"?

It's unfortunate that your educational experience was so unpleasant. My K-12 experience seemed quite wasteful as well. But I think that has more to do with incompetence and laziness. Doing more personalized teaching requires more teachers, which means they will have an even harder time attracting enough quality talent, and an even harder time firing bad teachers. That doesn't sound like a net win on quality to me, even if it is more personalized.

Re: Prof Gives Lecture to Prove He Knows Students Cheated; Over 200 Students Confess

#126
post #121
post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cheating in this definition is using someone else's work to benefit yourself and by definition the teacher cheated too by using someone else's questions to form "his" alleged test. That is a bizarre definition of cheating and shows that you don't understand the point of testing at all. The point of testing is to measure (perhaps crudely) students' understanding of what they are supposed to learn in the class. The tea…

So is any studying for a test acceptable, since it modifies the understanding you had before studying? I mean, we have to assume the materials being studied will contain the right answers to the questions on the test. Are lecture notes cheating? The professor is likely to include answers to test questions in his lectures. I've had professors use in their lectures the exact questions — literally, not a word different…

So is any studying for a test acceptable, since it modifies the understanding you had before studying?

That's the whole freakin' point: the test is supposed to measure your understanding. The honest way to improve your test scores is to improve your understanding of the material. The professors administer tests, the students study and learn, this is the intended way of things. This is the way traditional college classes work, and if you want to go to college and get grades, then you have two choices: study and earn your grades honestly, or lie and cheat.

Everybody encounters a class that they end up cutting corners in, of course. For example, you can try to predict what topics will be on the test and study those most carefully. You can try to predict which problems will be on the test and learn to solve those. The question is, are you actually trying to learn something the class is designed to teach and hoping that what you learn will serve you well in the test, or are you trying to improve your score without learning anything useful? Drilling pattern recognition of potential test problems is not learning. That method relies on your mind's ability to recognize specific verbal patterns and associate them with other verbal patterns. It has nothing to do with understanding the material. From the perspective of learning, it's a complete waste of time.

By the way, I agree with you that professors should lift questions and answers from their lecture notes with great restraint, for exactly the same reason. One or two here and there to reward diligent attendance is fine, but if it's a significant portion of the test, then the professor is essentially conspiring with the students to inflate the test results by relying on familiar phrases or diagrams to trigger students' memories of how to answer a particular question. That's actually a good reason for teachers to share testing materials: will students still understand the material when their professor's particular phrasing is not present? I heard a student complain he got a physics problem wrong because the professor always said "inclined plane," but the test problem talked about a "slanted floor." Clearly the student did not understand the material and was relying on verbal associations; no matter whose fault it was (the student's or the professor's) it was good that the test result reflected the student's lack of understanding. In the real world, an inclined plane does not say to you, "Hi there, I'm an 'inclined plane.' Does that ring a bell?" Or if it does, it will probably not use exactly the same words your college physics professor used in his lectures! That's a very good reason for a professor to use problems written by someone else.

Re: Prof Gives Lecture to Prove He Knows Students Cheated; Over 200 Students Confess

#127

Those who cheated because they did not know the material will not do as well on the makeup. That is one way of finding out who cheated.

By your logic, those who did well on the original exam but could not do as well on the makeup because they happened to have a bad mood/health/etc. will also be qualified as cheaters.

How does that make sense?

Re: Prof Gives Lecture to Prove He Knows Students Cheated; Over 200 Students Confess

#128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If this was such common knowledge amongst his students at UCF, then why was this the first time that the professor saw the bimodal distribution in the test scores? Why didn't his Summer class's test scores have the same distribution? I think a lot of the comments in this thread are making assumptions about what the students did or didn't do, and might possibly be excusing some unethical behavior because of faulty ass…

As someone who works with data I can tell you that distributions can take on all kinds of unexpected shapes, especially when n=600. I think he's bluffing - the stats can't prove that anyone has cheated. That said, the deal he offered sounded pretty good when compared to the alternative.

That assumes that proof of anything is required. That's not usually how college disciplinary actions work.

At its worst, universities will sometimes assume a student accused of wrongdoing is lying, and punish the student based solely on the word of the faculty/staff bringing the charge. This happens in lesser cases where the administration thinks it can get away with it, and when the student is frightened of harsher sanctions that might be inflicted if the student asserts his or her rights and demands a full hearing process.

At its best (typically in more serious cases), the disciplinary process resembles a civil case (except instead of a jury, it's more of a tribunal) where the required proof is a preponderance of the evidence.

It's no wonder 200 students confessed. If I was in that class and I'd never seen the test bank, I'd have confessed too. It's been my observation that the disciplinary process is better at railroading not-provably-guilty students than punishing provably-guilty students. I would not want to take my chances.

Re: Prof Gives Lecture to Prove He Knows Students Cheated; Over 200 Students Confess

#129
post #10

So, at least where I went to school (Georgia Tech) it is well known and accepted that students have word of basically every question that's ever been asked for any given course. Professors also commonly post previous exams as study guides for courses. Is this not common elsewhere?

It was the same in my university and every other university I know of. Previous exam questions are widely available for all popular courses.

It would be foolish to think otherwise. What's to stop a student to write down questions after taking an exam and pass on to his juniors? Since this cannot be prevented, the faculty must assume that all students have all previous questions as part of their study material.

Sometimes a professor knowingly reuses his old questions. In that case, the students should warn him: not for the professor, but for their own good. Because otherwise, they will be evaluated on less questions (since almost all students will answer old questions correctly whether they really know the subject or not).

The students made only one mistake here, and it was taking that course from this particular professor.

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