Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Germany's car industry faces a perfect storm

handelsblatt.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

101–110 of 141 posts

Re: Germany's car industry faces a perfect storm

#101

Post by simo7 »

iamctobitch wrote: post #59
edem wrote: post #49

About time. I had the "luck" of working for multiple German companies (including Volkswagen) and I'm surprised how these behemoths still function. As a grunt programmer, it was painful to see how the upper management made decisions based on politics which made no technological sense whatsoever. In my years of working for German companies I saw multiple project reboots, millions of $s thrown out of the window on faile…

>I'm surprised how these behemoths still function. You haven't seen Brazilian or India companies in comparison with same level of buercracy and lacking in resources and technology. German companies are still working because rest of the world is soo bad in comparison. But this is changing as China/US will compete directly head to head in EV segment and both of them already have massive software ecosystem which did not…

True, big organisations are always dysfunctional in a way or another. It's surprising to see how successful companies can be, simply by not being too dysfunctional.

That being said, I do believe some of the German automakers are pretty high on the inefficiency scale.

Re: Germany's car industry faces a perfect storm

#102

Post by pps43 »

mk89 wrote: post #36
paganel wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What kind of innovation did Germany establish besides ABS? Not sure why you got downvoted, afaik the most important technological breakthroughs when it came to cars in Europe were made by the Italians (Fiat, mostly, but Alfa Romeo too), the French (the Citroen DS is one of the best technological products ever) and the Swedes (Volvo and its emphasis on security). Somehow the Germans navigated the ‘90s and early 2000…

Did you ever drive a German car (not necessarily a Mercedes, even a simple VW Polo) vs a non German car? Seriously, that's the reason. Quality. You can be as innovative as you wish, but if you are cheap and provide low quality products, that's what you get. Eventually someone is able to provide the same technology and then quality wins.

That was true for a while, but not any more. Now Japanese and even Korean car makers have better quality (if you compare vehicles of similar price).

Re: Germany's car industry faces a perfect storm

#104

Post by dustindiamond »

ff10 wrote: post #98
bookofjoe wrote: post #78

I was surprised to find OP didn't cite what I believe to be an even more existential threat: the rise of Tesla's bit-based cabin vs. the atom-based tradition of legacy makers. Compare the Model S with its elegant, minimalist, understandable layout vs. the latest Mercedes-Benz S-Class cabin, which resembles a miniaturized version of the space shuttle: countless dials, screens, buttons, switches, levers, and lights abo…

You imply that traditional dashboards are too complicated. However, Tesla is merely hiding that complexity behind one or a few screens an a few buttons. I like the approach to minimalism, but in my opinion there has to be a balance between pragmatism and beauty. The learning curve and ease of access is just lower in German (or traditional) dashboards in general. I am not sure if Tesla found that particular balance. I…

I agree with the parent. The UX of the Tesla Model S seems like a cohesive design from a coordinated team. The 2018 Audi S4, lacks the cohesiveness and the UX is a bit overwhelming.

Re: Germany's car industry faces a perfect storm

#105

Post by clouddrover »

chimen wrote: post #54
Latteland wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was shocking that LG trying to block them from building their own battery supply became public. I think if they don't get serious about battery production in the next couple of years, it will take a decade to catch up. tesla's lead and ability to make their own batteries with panasonic is a massive advantage. i went the auto companies to make their own batteries too. there will be a shortage of battery productions…

I hope something drastic takes place. Batteries are the only piece of "hardware" without any new discoveries in decades. Li-Ion I had in high school and it still drives my phone today. Whoever finds a better alternative is going to completely change the automotive industry and mobile. I just don't hear about many researches being made in this field.

The next step for batteries is making solid-state batteries work commercially for their superior energy density and safety:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9-cNNYb1Ik

24M has developed what they call a semi-solid-state battery and have delivered batteries with a capacity of 280 wh per kilogram:

https://xconomy.com/boston/2019/02/26/24m-lithium-ion-batter...

They think they can get to 350 wh/kg by 2020, which is a dramatic improvement over current EV batteries.

Re: Germany's car industry faces a perfect storm

#106

Post by ivan_gammel »

AdrianB1 wrote: post #84
ivan_gammel wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Germans just have a higher bar for "innovation": It has to be useful. Somehow they don't find credit cards useful and still pay a lot in cash, when the rest of the world already embraced wireless payments. :)

They have historical reasons for that. Hard to understand if you don't have the background.

I do have the background, just like people from other countries who lived in the surveillance states and dictatorships. Privacy and anonymity are different things and can be protected in different ways, not necessarily by avoiding leaving any traces in daily life.

Re: Germany's car industry faces a perfect storm

#107

Post by tatami »

dirtylowprofile wrote: post #39
ahartmetz wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not all German organizations are like that. The car industry is especially dysfunctional. I've been watching them fail at software for years now. The problem, as far as I can tell, is as follows: top management is able and motivated to increase the size of the money bag. Developers just want to do a good job for a good salary. Middle management can't change the size of the money bag too much, so it just wants to grab…

I wonder what’s the majority of the source code in German like? Is it mostly in English or German?

Majority I would suspect in English, but there is plenty of "German" source code, including hilarious mixes of both languages in method names etc.

Re: Germany's car industry faces a perfect storm

#108

Post by AdrianB1 »

ivan_gammel wrote: post #106
AdrianB1 wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They have historical reasons for that. Hard to understand if you don't have the background.

I do have the background, just like people from other countries who lived in the surveillance states and dictatorships. Privacy and anonymity are different things and can be protected in different ways, not necessarily by avoiding leaving any traces in daily life.

Not only privacy and anonymity: in my country there was confiscation. It is harder to confiscate cash than bank accounts. Or to block bank accounts.

Re: Germany's car industry faces a perfect storm

#109

Post by expertentipp »

lazyjones wrote: post #34
paganel wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What kind of innovation did Germany establish besides ABS? Not sure why you got downvoted, afaik the most important technological breakthroughs when it came to cars in Europe were made by the Italians (Fiat, mostly, but Alfa Romeo too), the French (the Citroen DS is one of the best technological products ever) and the Swedes (Volvo and its emphasis on security). Somehow the Germans navigated the ‘90s and early 2000…

> afaik the most important technological breakthroughs when it came to cars in Europe were made by the Italians Carl Benz - invented and patented the first "motorcar" Gottfried Daimler - also independently built an automobile the same year as Benz. Siegfried Marcus - 131 patents, first petrol-powered vehicle. etc.

Many early automotive technological breakthroughs attributed to Germans are Czech or Austrian actually. It's the enormous power of German automotive industry which absorbs all relevant innovation, and washes off any bad flaws.

Re: Germany's car industry faces a perfect storm

#110

Post by LifeLiverTransp »

Brakenshire wrote: post #64
iamctobitch wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I'm surprised how these behemoths still function. You haven't seen Brazilian or India companies in comparison with same level of buercracy and lacking in resources and technology. German companies are still working because rest of the world is soo bad in comparison. But this is changing as China/US will compete directly head to head in EV segment and both of them already have massive software ecosystem which did not…

Do those companies really have a problem with software? I’d imagine most of the software in cars is embedded, for controlling different mechanisms for the brakes, steering, cooling, etc. For those, I would prefer a stuffy bureacratic process rather than a Tesla, SV style move-fast attitude, even if that is more productive. I want software in a car to be finished and tested fully when the car is delivered, and then to…

Most of these companys dont even have expertese in software. Software is something that is produced outside by the cheapest vendor.

All good german software devs are either in the swiss - or in the valley.

Post reply on HN