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Germany's car industry faces a perfect storm

handelsblatt.com

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Re: Germany's car industry faces a perfect storm

#51

Post by vinay427 »

PinguTS wrote: post #44
l4u532 wrote: post #8

As a German, I am quite happy about this. What you must know is that German organisations are extremely hierarchical, with little information flowing from frontline management to to top management. Hence, change only happens top down and only if the top managers in their ivory towers deem it necessary. But it’s incredibly important that our automakers reinvent themselves. And here we have the necessary angst to drive…

You never hear such stories about the French car industry. Didn't you? I know engineers how left Opel after the merger with PSA because PSA is that what you describe. At Opel it was much different. It used to be also different at Mercedes. Engineers are leaving right now Mercedes because they "streamline" their engineering. Which basically means cutting cost in terms that engineers who worked for the next generation…

> I just want to remind that Teslas with AP1 don't get no more updates. That is breaking his promise that all Teslas, all as in ALL, will improve by OTA. That is how old?

This is simply incorrect. Their Autopilot software doesn't really get updated, but the majority of recent feature additions are probably not Autopilot-related. All of these changes are still provided to Teslas from 2012, for instance.

Re: Germany's car industry faces a perfect storm

#52

Post by iamctobitch »

ahartmetz wrote: post #16
ivan_gammel wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The main reason middle managers hire ineffective developers in Germany and elsewhere is that the job market is in a state of permanent crisis: the demand is so high that now everyone calls "senior" the people who cannot even estimate the performance of an algorithm or didn't bother to learn something new in the last 5 years. This applies both to developers and to managers and is complicated by the fact, that large an…

There are quite a few good German developers who know enough about the car industry to stay far away from it because it's so broken. As a lowly developer, you can't fix it - you'll just get chewed up.

There isn't a job which strictly requires expertise from a "German developer" which a Romanian or Polish or Crotaian Developer can't do.

Re: Germany's car industry faces a perfect storm

#53

Post by iamctobitch »

l4u532 wrote: post #8

As a German, I am quite happy about this. What you must know is that German organisations are extremely hierarchical, with little information flowing from frontline management to to top management. Hence, change only happens top down and only if the top managers in their ivory towers deem it necessary. But it’s incredibly important that our automakers reinvent themselves. And here we have the necessary angst to drive…

This is what happens when industry is supported by government and whole ecosystem is created around it, this does give competitive advantages but induces complacemenement. Their final resort is politics (protectionism) to preserve their competitive advantage.

In Germany, there is no way for an engineer to become very wealthy through entrepreneurship.

Even if you bought a house, you can't make much money from it through renting or appreciation.

Because whole country is optimized for cheap labor. Okay, labor is not that cheap but upside is rather very limited unlike US or China!

You worked hard at university and became engineer? Well someone fucked up and became a highschool teacher yet makes same wage as you. Suck it up and that's what kill motivation of engineers. Blue collar laborers also make same wage.

Management always have upper hand and laughs you out of door when you suggest anything. Here you can't even get funded and supported to go against a company and compete against them.

It's even worst than US because here companies can bring labor from East Europe to replace you and you won't even get funding to start a new company so game is over.

Also, Germany has weak property rights. Housing is kept cheap, to make labor competitive and cheap.

So, you will always stay a poor labor in this country Germany.

China/US atleast have clear path to mega wealth.

Re: Germany's car industry faces a perfect storm

#54

Post by chimen »

Latteland wrote: post #9
clouddrover wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Especially if LG manages to block VW's future battery plans: https://electrek.co/2019/02/21/lg-vw-battery-cell-supply-ev-...

It was shocking that LG trying to block them from building their own battery supply became public. I think if they don't get serious about battery production in the next couple of years, it will take a decade to catch up. tesla's lead and ability to make their own batteries with panasonic is a massive advantage. i went the auto companies to make their own batteries too. there will be a shortage of battery productions…

I hope something drastic takes place. Batteries are the only piece of "hardware" without any new discoveries in decades. Li-Ion I had in high school and it still drives my phone today.

Whoever finds a better alternative is going to completely change the automotive industry and mobile. I just don't hear about many researches being made in this field.

Re: Germany's car industry faces a perfect storm

#56

Post by ahartmetz »

iamctobitch wrote: post #52
ahartmetz wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are quite a few good German developers who know enough about the car industry to stay far away from it because it's so broken. As a lowly developer, you can't fix it - you'll just get chewed up.

There isn't a job which strictly requires expertise from a "German developer" which a Romanian or Polish or Crotaian Developer can't do.

The problem with those Eastern European developers is not that they are bad developers - they are pretty good value for money in and of themselves. The problem is that they are wrapped up in the structures that are killing German automotive software. They are probably the ones that get hired to implement the crap that architects made up and that """only""" needs implementation, no questions asked. Just write the code.

Good software development just isn't structured like that at all.

Re: Germany's car industry faces a perfect storm

#57

Post by iagovar »

edem wrote: post #49

About time. I had the "luck" of working for multiple German companies (including Volkswagen) and I'm surprised how these behemoths still function. As a grunt programmer, it was painful to see how the upper management made decisions based on politics which made no technological sense whatsoever. In my years of working for German companies I saw multiple project reboots, millions of $s thrown out of the window on faile…

They won't learn. I work for another euro behemoth and it's exactly the situation you describe. As long as they pay me and support my lifestyle I have no problem, but Im already tired of trying to fight the nonsense.

Sadly Im not a programmer so finding other companies with the same conditions is hard.

Re: Germany's car industry faces a perfect storm

#58

Post by mtgx »

lazyjones wrote: post #48
clouddrover wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because the world car market is bigger than just China, because Volkswagen is the world's second biggest car company, and because VW is big enough to spend its way out of trouble (which is what it's doing now).

If the world worked that way, Microsoft would dominate the mobile OS market now. They had plenty of money and were the 2nd largest (by sales, 1st by market cap) software company when they gave up trying. The Chinese car market is the largest in the world and due to EV popularity, by far the largest and most important EV market. If VW doesn't prevail there, they aren't likely to come anywhere near the position of "big…

Or Intel would dominate the mobile market for that matter. Instead they just ended up spending $1 billion a quarter for a few years without moving the needle.

Re: Germany's car industry faces a perfect storm

#59

Post by iamctobitch »

edem wrote: post #49

About time. I had the "luck" of working for multiple German companies (including Volkswagen) and I'm surprised how these behemoths still function. As a grunt programmer, it was painful to see how the upper management made decisions based on politics which made no technological sense whatsoever. In my years of working for German companies I saw multiple project reboots, millions of $s thrown out of the window on faile…

>I'm surprised how these behemoths still function.

You haven't seen Brazilian or India companies in comparison with same level of buercracy and lacking in resources and technology.

German companies are still working because rest of the world is soo bad in comparison.

But this is changing as China/US will compete directly head to head in EV segment and both of them already have massive software ecosystem which did not thrive under German executive mindset for now.

Re: Germany's car industry faces a perfect storm

#60

Post by edem »

iamctobitch wrote: post #59
edem wrote: post #49

About time. I had the "luck" of working for multiple German companies (including Volkswagen) and I'm surprised how these behemoths still function. As a grunt programmer, it was painful to see how the upper management made decisions based on politics which made no technological sense whatsoever. In my years of working for German companies I saw multiple project reboots, millions of $s thrown out of the window on faile…

>I'm surprised how these behemoths still function. You haven't seen Brazilian or India companies in comparison with same level of buercracy and lacking in resources and technology. German companies are still working because rest of the world is soo bad in comparison. But this is changing as China/US will compete directly head to head in EV segment and both of them already have massive software ecosystem which did not…

I've seen "The Big Short" movie lately and I was flabbergasted about how the finance industry works. I'm beginning to realize that this pattern is universal in all industries. I also see that we as a species are suffering from the same mechanism. We won't learn until it is too late. I want to understand the pattern so I can find a way out of it somehow.

BTW: where do you work as a CTO?

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