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India and Pakistan should stop playing with fire

economist.com

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Re: India and Pakistan should stop playing with fire

#31

Post by devoply »

Bhilai wrote: post #30
devoply wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some non state actors started the conflict, and India decided to make it an official conflict. State actors can't really treat these non-conventional forces as extensions of the military of other countries and retaliate against them. Well they can but then they risk starting wars. Often these non-state actors do whatever they want on their own, despite their handlers telling them not to do something. If these two cou…

> Some non state actors started the conflict, and India decided to make it an official conflict. State actors can't really treat these non-conventional forces as extensions of the military of other countries and retaliate against them. Sorry but this is total BS. Pakistan as a state is known to support and sponsor terrorist groups including Jaish-e-Mohammed, which was responsible for the recent attack that led to dea…

Government of India and the Indian military similarly has the power to stop all of its abuses of Kashmir but chooses not to... Each side is playing its game. They are both wrong.

Re: India and Pakistan should stop playing with fire

#32

Post by SlipperySlope »

RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #8

One thing that may have changed the calculus for India being more aggressive in it's bombing is that US backing of Pakistan in a conflict with India is no longer a given. Given the covert if not overt Pakistani support for Taliban insurgents in Afghanistan, as well as that Bin Laden was found hiding in Pakistan, I doubt there is any substantial support in the US population for Pakistan over against India. Many Americ…

Yeah, the US military is probably pulling for those Indian Mig-21s to shoot down lots of Pak F-16s.

Shows how wrong we got that one decades ago. And where did N.Korea get its nukes?

Worst that could happen is that Pak loses track of one of those nukes they keep moving around and jihadis get it.

Re: India and Pakistan should stop playing with fire

#33

Post by xbmcuser »

Bhilai wrote: post #30
devoply wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some non state actors started the conflict, and India decided to make it an official conflict. State actors can't really treat these non-conventional forces as extensions of the military of other countries and retaliate against them. Well they can but then they risk starting wars. Often these non-state actors do whatever they want on their own, despite their handlers telling them not to do something. If these two cou…

> Some non state actors started the conflict, and India decided to make it an official conflict. State actors can't really treat these non-conventional forces as extensions of the military of other countries and retaliate against them. Sorry but this is total BS. Pakistan as a state is known to support and sponsor terrorist groups including Jaish-e-Mohammed, which was responsible for the recent attack that led to dea…

The timing of the terrorist attack in India was at the worst time for Pakistan as the Saudi delegation was visiting at the time. And the attack was done by a kashmiri living in indian part of Kashmir that had been abused by Indian forces earlier. You can blame Pakistan but reality is it is India own behaviour in Kashmir that is causing the problems. Pakistan might have supported armed conflict in Indian Kashmir earlier but the current government and people in power are not interested in it. And by the way An Indian Navy guy (Indian claims retired) is in international Court being tried for terrorism in Pakistan. So it is not like India has not been doing the same in Pakistan province of Balouchistan

Re: India and Pakistan should stop playing with fire

#34

Post by fellellor »

devoply wrote: post #28
writepub wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand the response. India deserves terrorism now? You swing from "but they inaccurately blame the state" to "they deserve it because ...".

I never said any such thing. You are obviously extolling the virtues that all terrorism is evil. State violence is as evil as terrorism and two sides of the same coin. So you wish to paint a picture where evil Pakistan is the perpetrator where the truth is that Indian government and Indian army has done a lot to provoke militancy in Kashmir and should simply withdraw and all of Kashmir should be an independent state…

But Pakistan has radicalised the population of Kashmir to such an extent that they now want the establishment of an Islamic state under Sharia rule, not simply Independence.

Re: India and Pakistan should stop playing with fire

#35

Post by hiyer »

devoply wrote: post #23
merpnderp wrote: post #7

I don't get this article. Pakistan's reprehensible support for terrorism started this conflict, but it's all Mr. Modi's fault because they don't like his politics?

Some non state actors started the conflict, and India decided to make it an official conflict. State actors can't really treat these non-conventional forces as extensions of the military of other countries and retaliate against them. Well they can but then they risk starting wars. Often these non-state actors do whatever they want on their own, despite their handlers telling them not to do something. If these two cou…

Terrorist groups like JeM and LeT are trained, funded and equipped by the Pakistan army. The Pakistani army provides covering fire to them when they try to infiltrate into India. Heck, the very fact that Pakistan tried to retaliate for an attack on - by their own admission - a JeM training camp shows that Pakistan feels as responsible for them as for their own military.

Despite Pakistan's claims to the contrary, they are hardly non-state actors.

Re: India and Pakistan should stop playing with fire

#36

Post by [deleted] »

devoply wrote: post #28
writepub wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand the response. India deserves terrorism now? You swing from "but they inaccurately blame the state" to "they deserve it because ...".

I never said any such thing. You are obviously extolling the virtues that all terrorism is evil. State violence is as evil as terrorism and two sides of the same coin. So you wish to paint a picture where evil Pakistan is the perpetrator where the truth is that Indian government and Indian army has done a lot to provoke militancy in Kashmir and should simply withdraw and all of Kashmir should be an independent state…

[deleted]

Re: India and Pakistan should stop playing with fire

#37

Post by worldexplorer »

ziyadparekh wrote: post #13
writepub wrote: post #9

Yes indeed! India should pay heed to an opinion hit-piece authored by a citizen of the West with no connection to on-the-ground reality in Indian Kashmir, or India. The truth is patently simple: Pakistan's ISI (it's version of CIA) provides direct financial, logistic, and strategic cover for terrorists who target and kill Indians, routinely. How exactly does any country deal with this? I don't remember the economist…

The truth isnt as simple as you make it out to be. Pakistan was just handed into the control of a new government which seems to be taking a proactive stand with popular measures coming into play. India is entering into election terms which could be the reason these tensions are escalating. Both countries using this to further their own political agendas. India crossed the Line of Control, Pakistan shot down and captu…

This is new- 'India has terrorist camps' lol. Your own foreign minister admits terrorist Masood Azhar live in Pakistan(whose brother hijacked Indian plane which everyone in the world knows).

Re: India and Pakistan should stop playing with fire

#38

Post by amriksohata »

This article totally misses the point, election or no election, any Indian (or non Indian) government would have to respond to 40 of its army men being killed by a terrorist group that gets sanctuary in Pakistan. Pakistan is known to have played a double game with the US too, removing terrorists that are anti-Pakistani but supporting terrorists that support the Pakistani expansionist agenda into Kashmir

Re: India and Pakistan should stop playing with fire

#39

Post by kkrbalam »

devoply wrote: post #23
merpnderp wrote: post #7

I don't get this article. Pakistan's reprehensible support for terrorism started this conflict, but it's all Mr. Modi's fault because they don't like his politics?

Some non state actors started the conflict, and India decided to make it an official conflict. State actors can't really treat these non-conventional forces as extensions of the military of other countries and retaliate against them. Well they can but then they risk starting wars. Often these non-state actors do whatever they want on their own, despite their handlers telling them not to do something. If these two cou…

If Israel and the united states have the right to invade into other countries because those countries are training and sponsoring terrorism, India has full right to attack Pakistan's terrorist bases whether those are close to Islamabad or not (remember US Seals killed Osama in Pakistan). Historically it is proven that Pakistan is the breeding ground all of the world's terrorism problems.

Re: India and Pakistan should stop playing with fire

#40

Post by mhq »

amriksohata wrote: post #38

This article totally misses the point, election or no election, any Indian (or non Indian) government would have to respond to 40 of its army men being killed by a terrorist group that gets sanctuary in Pakistan. Pakistan is known to have played a double game with the US too, removing terrorists that are anti-Pakistani but supporting terrorists that support the Pakistani expansionist agenda into Kashmir

Who could benefit from that terrorist attack? Answer. BJP and Indian PM Modi. India has 700,000 army persons in a small valley of Kashmir. Their intelligence service (R&W) has infiltrated all the terrorist orgs in Kashmir and conducts such bomb blasts for political gains whenever required. Modi required right-wing votes so required war-hysteria and jingoism which lead to all this situation.
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