Rednecks trumpites in California too. Not surprised.
California's San Bernardino County restricts construction of solar, wind farms
151–160 of 214 posts
Re: California's San Bernardino County restricts construction of solar, wind farms
#152Earlier quoted context omitted.
Might be an interesting terraforming project: bring some water along with the electrical infra, plant drought resistant shrubs and watch as they start covering soil, capturing moisture and so on...
Or maybe just leave the desert ecosystem alone? I am not sure why people think that a desert is bare and empty, I guess most just assume that because you can't see it as easily as you can in a forest that there is nothing there, but desert ecosystems are much more fragile than most other ecosystems and do not adjust easily to random interference.
Any human activity had an impact on the earth. At some point even the most well-intentioned of us have to accept that some big benefits may come at some (ideally lesser) costs.
I would ask those locals if they are ok with having no electricity other than what they can generate themselves on their own houses.
Desert may be a fragile area, but what is the real impact of its disruption? Everywhere there are tradeoffs.
Re: California's San Bernardino County restricts construction of solar, wind farms
#153> “These vast open areas are precious for their natural, historical and recreational qualities. But they are fragile, and no amount of mitigation can counter the damage that industrial-scale renewable energy projects would cause,” Fairchild told the supervisors. “Once destroyed, these landscapes can never be brought back.” Because climate change won't destroy precious fragile landscapes? Okay, here's my deal: you get…
These huge renewable projects do have major ecological impact, why lie about it? Due to low power generation density they take up a lot of space compared to fossil fuel/nuclear plants and that's not including the large amount of power lines that have to be run to all these new facilities. There are well known negative ecological impacts from the solar farms in this area that others have pointed out.
Just because a desert or prairie ecosystem isn't as obvious a conservation target as a forest doesn't mean they are not valuable ecosystems that shouldn't be protected from development.
There's no free lunch in energy generation, every form of it has some ecological drawback. Look at this virgin forest that Georgetown University wants to cut down to put a solar facility up. How is this a net positive for the environment?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/md-politics/georgetown-...
Re: California's San Bernardino County restricts construction of solar, wind farms
#154Wide open rural land, little environmental or people impact, some of the best consistent sun in the world
Destroying a virgin desert ecosystem with an industrial installation is not little environmental impact.
Re: California's San Bernardino County restricts construction of solar, wind farms
#155> But they are fragile, and no amount of mitigation can counter the damage that industrial-scale renewable energy projects would cause They can't possibly be serious. How much damage could solar or wind even cause ?
A ton. I was involved in the successful opposition against a wind farm project in Canada that was proposed for just north of a major internationally protected migratory bird habitat[1]. Habitat destruction is just a big an environmental problem, and actually probably bigger, than climate change in North America. We are down to less than ten percent of native grasslands remaining in our continent which is the biggest slow-motion environmental disaster that doesn't get talked about much.
What's the point of renewable energy if not to help protect natural areas like the ones being proposed for development?
https://leaderpost.com/business/energy/chaplin-lake-wind-tur...
Re: California's San Bernardino County restricts construction of solar, wind farms
#156San Bernardino County is home to the Ivanpah Solar Power Facility [1], which is a mirror-focused solar thermal power plant. It generates a lot of glare and is controversial for its impact on animals. It also took several years to ramp up to its promised output. Solar panels don't have problem with glare, but the landscape of the county has large viewsheds of sloping treeless desert, so any facility will have a large…
> Solar panels don't have problem with glare
You clearly haven't been on a highway leading straight towards a hillside panel cluster [1] at that particular time of day and year when the reflection trail of the panels passes over the road. It's much worse than going towards dawn or sunset because those are toned down do much by atmospheric attenuation. All you can do is blindly maintaining speed and hoping that nobody in front of you panics. We have a lot to learn about panel placement and permits, maybe we need to deliberately add jitter to panel orientation in locations where the reflection beam would pass over sensitive locations like high speed roads or even go back to heliostat installations there. (Or at least have some minor articulation capabilities to aim the reflection away)
[1] http://maps.google.com/maps?saddr=NM32&daddr=E56&geocode=Fet... I think it was at the location marked in the link, the end points of the route mark the glare source and target. IIRC it is an unrestricted stretch, where on a Sunday when trucks are not permitted even the slow lane often travels at 150 kph or more
Re: California's San Bernardino County restricts construction of solar, wind farms
#157 Lucerne dry lake isn’t right now. Isn’t Sen Feinstein D-CA financially involved in desert solar projects?
Re: California's San Bernardino County restricts construction of solar, wind farms
#158> “These vast open areas are precious for their natural, historical and recreational qualities. But they are fragile, and no amount of mitigation can counter the damage that industrial-scale renewable energy projects would cause,” Fairchild told the supervisors. “Once destroyed, these landscapes can never be brought back.” Because climate change won't destroy precious fragile landscapes? Okay, here's my deal: you get…
From the article: > The policy approved by the supervisors prohibits utility-oriented renewable energy projects — defined as projects that would mostly serve out-of-town utility customers, rather than local power needs — within the boundaries of Community Plans that have been adopted by more than a dozen unincorporated towns. It doesn't seem like they're opposing local renewable energy. They're opposing renewable ene…
So somewhere else a powerplant should stop sending them power because they are the out of towners?
Re: California's San Bernardino County restricts construction of solar, wind farms
#159> “These vast open areas are precious for their natural, historical and recreational qualities. But they are fragile, and no amount of mitigation can counter the damage that industrial-scale renewable energy projects would cause,” Fairchild told the supervisors. “Once destroyed, these landscapes can never be brought back.” Because climate change won't destroy precious fragile landscapes? Okay, here's my deal: you get…
These huge renewable projects do have major ecological impact, why lie about it? Due to low power generation density they take up a lot of space compared to fossil fuel/nuclear plants and that's not including the large amount of power lines that have to be run to all these new facilities. There are well known negative ecological impacts from the solar farms in this area that others have pointed out. Just because a de…
Well the alternative to more renewables is, realistically, more coal and gas. I think that covering up one or two percent of even the most valuable biomes with solar panels is no where near as destructive as climate change.
Re: California's San Bernardino County restricts construction of solar, wind farms
#160Earlier quoted context omitted.
This gets to a conflict of values between different environmentalists - a lot of people are willing to accept local environmental damage in order to counter climate change.
The people willing to accept “local” environmental change are not local, are they? Let’s be honest, coastal liberals want to build solar in the desert so they can charge their Teslas with a clear conscience. The people actually living there resent this. It’s the same dynamic that’s been playing out for over a century between urban and rural CA as regards water.
At the end of the day someone gets the powerplant in their backyard.