$35,000 Tesla Model 3 Available Now • Hacker News Board

Re: $35,000 Tesla Model 3 Available Now

#191

Post by natch » Thu, Feb 28, 2019, 11:41 PM UTC

BoorishBears wrote: post #176

Dylan16807 wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is very good advice to keep in mind, but it's not Tesla's fault if the credit reporting agencies are terrible.

I think they both deserve credit, in reality returning a 30 thousand dollar object is never going to be smooth. The finance has already written you a check, they’ve already done all this leg work. You’ve already driven it, if you’re purchasing it in earnest you might have already invested in charging infrastructure for your home, a whole laundry list of friction. Then there’s what happens to the car you returned. I w…

Once you drive it, you are not going to want to return it, so all this is moot for most people.

Re: $35,000 Tesla Model 3 Available Now

#192

Post by Rebelgecko » Thu, Feb 28, 2019, 11:42 PM UTC

dmode wrote: post #150

ekianjo wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If its your first car it makes absolutely no sense.

It is still a savings as you would have bought an ICE otherwise

no I wouldn't

Re: $35,000 Tesla Model 3 Available Now

#193

Post by nickik » Thu, Feb 28, 2019, 11:42 PM UTC

tfehring wrote: post #128

TheSmiddy wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

buying a $35,000 Tesla has the equivalent cost of ownership of buying a $26,950 ICE car. It's not a massive amount of mental gymnastics. I definitely don't agree with Teslas practices of framing it that way, I'd rather they just show cost of ownership comparisons across a variety of cars. Especially since they can't even meet the demand they currently have, why resort to shady practices?

> buying a $35,000 Tesla has the equivalent cost of ownership of buying a $26,950 ICE car. It's not a massive amount of mental gymnastics. But only if you arbitrarily include the difference in fuel costs, which makes Tesla look cheaper, and exclude the differences in insurance and maintenance costs, which make Tesla look more expensive.

Those things are all analyzed in these overall ownership models. That's the whole point the those things.

And of course you have to include full cost, ICE can not run without it, and most people want to drive their car.

Of course these are avg numbers and you have to do it with your personal driving numbers and how long you want to keep the car to get a more detailed picture of the cost.

However overall, pretty much all EV have a significant large part of up front cost to ownership cost so its totally fair to point that out.

That said, Tesla is of course a company and they are pressing this point to aggressive and that is irritating to many of us. The overall point they are making however, is backed up by the data.

Re: $35,000 Tesla Model 3 Available Now

#194

Post by heyyyouu » Thu, Feb 28, 2019, 11:42 PM UTC

Rebelgecko wrote: post #190

dmode wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It actually understates the savings, since it only captures the Federal credit. CA gives out $2500 extra AND carpool stickers (admittedly more valuable than the tax credit)

I think at this point only a subset of Teslas are still eligible for the carpool sticker

AND there's a limited number given out every year -- you're not guaranteed one.

Re: $35,000 Tesla Model 3 Available Now

#195

Post by drfuchs » Thu, Feb 28, 2019, 11:43 PM UTC

dmode wrote: post #154

paxys wrote: post #7

It's so shady that their advertised price includes some hypothetical "potential gas savings", and the actual price is behind a tiny "learn more" link.

It actually understates the savings, since it only captures the Federal credit. CA gives out $2500 extra AND carpool stickers (admittedly more valuable than the tax credit)

To get both the HOV ("carpool") sticker and the $2500 California credit, your income has to be under "$150,000 for a single person, $204,000 for a head-of-household, and $300,000 for a joint tax return" as per https://cleanvehiclerebate.org/eng/income-eligibility

Re: $35,000 Tesla Model 3 Available Now

#196

Post by elipsey » Thu, Feb 28, 2019, 11:45 PM UTC

pcurve wrote: post #171

codeulike wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So presumably they are hoping many $35k buyers will be tempted by the $37k which presumably has a better margin for Tesla

I don't think anyone will actually buy $35k model. They made it so undesirable that it's almost laughable. Reminds me of 2004 Honda Accord DX model with $16995 with roll-up manual windows, plastic hub caps and manual tranny that hardly anyone bought. Most will opt for $40k premium model. Though 37k is much better value, it's missing the core features that tickle fancy of Tesla buyers. Standard Interior Includes: Manu…

I drove a couple of Hondas like that, and I kind of liked them. Ever try replacing a window motor? :)

Re: $35,000 Tesla Model 3 Available Now

#197

Post by Tomte » Thu, Feb 28, 2019, 11:45 PM UTC

scarmig wrote: post #54

matz1 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It might be shady and of course some people will despise it but if the net effect is sales increased, then they should do it.

Before, my impression of Tesla was that it's a company that has had some struggles but is genuinely trying to do a cool, useful, good thing. After, my impression of Tesla is that it's incredibly shady and manipulative, and I have a great deal of anger at it because this page is disgustingly deceptive. You've got to get a reasonable estimate of how much less likely I'm going to purchase a Tesla in the future, but befo…

Before, you didn't know about their meeting sleading (I'd call it lying) claims about autopilot?

Where they show a video about full autonomous driving, talk a lot about full autonomous driving and then at the very bottom of the page write in very small print that "some jurisdictions" may not allow that at this time? Where "some" means probably "every one except lawless states like Somalia or so".

Re: $35,000 Tesla Model 3 Available Now

#198

Post by cududa » Thu, Feb 28, 2019, 11:45 PM UTC

joshe wrote: post #164

sethammons wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would never buy something without a test drive. No level of return policy will be good enough.

Does saving $2,100 help?

Not really if I have no idea what I’m buying?

Re: $35,000 Tesla Model 3 Available Now

#199

Post by mikeash » Thu, Feb 28, 2019, 11:45 PM UTC

pgroves wrote: post #60

usaphp wrote: post #33

Coming later this year: - Recognize and respond to traffic lights and stop signs. - Automatic driving on city streets. Option Selected: $5,000

I've been on plenty of machine learning projects and have seen the boss make promises that the engineers are expected to keep. This is exactly what it looks like. The outcome is always overfitting a simulation or data set somewhere so that it looks like it's working, but the real world performance ends up being worse. Unless the engineers get stubborn and declare themselves to have failed (which can actually happen).…

I guess this is a case where it’s fortunate that Tesla is almost always late.

If those features ship before 11:59PM Pacific time on December 31st, I’ll be surprised.

(And I say this as a fan who owns two of the things.)

Re: $35,000 Tesla Model 3 Available Now

#200

Post by mikeash » Thu, Feb 28, 2019, 11:46 PM UTC

powerbroker wrote: post #70

It's so shady that they are closing down their stores and have no one to answer questions about when spare parts for damaged cars are going to arrive. I detect a pattern of ducking from questions about keeping their current cars on the road.

The service centers will still be there.