Earlier quoted context omitted.
Framer X is supposed to have a similar feature set, but Mac only. Also, are you sure you need react?
I'm open to any language! My skill in front-end development isn't great. I only know a bit here and there to get by. I've been trying to make a small webapp tied to Amazon Sagemaker but I struggle to make the site presentable where it doesn't look like it's made in the 90s....
Pagedraw is shutting down and going open source
61–70 of 120 posts
Re: Pagedraw is shutting down and going open source
#62Earlier quoted context omitted.
Its comments like this that make people hate HN. I agree with their writeup fully. They focused wayyyy too much on performance and not enough on an MVP, pivoting, marketing, growth, and staying agile. I would love to get all these "Performance First! Its so easy" engineers in a room for a week. Hell, give em three weeks and they still wouldn't have a single line of code written. But they would still be arguing about…
Well, as someone else said, it's not always black or white. Videogames MUST deliver performance, it's not only sales. Some desktop AND web applications could benefit from some performance boost here and there, and I mean being fast enough and not some abominations I've seen/heard about (minutes to get Excel files and examples like that, just because they're "thousands" of rows from a database). You know, sales is eve…
That's not true in the way that I think you're using video games as an example. Video games must be fun, being fun requires being performant enough, and for graphically demanding games that requires lots of optimizing. But there are tons of games that are not graphically demanding.
Re: Pagedraw is shutting down and going open source
#63One absolute rule for success in software is that there are no absolute rules. From their post mortem https://medium.com/@gabriel_20625/technical-lessons-from-bui... > Performance is never a justification for anything if you haven’t measured it This just isn't true. Anyone with a reasonable amount of experience is often able to look ahead - well before any code is written - and see how performance could be better if…
I don't want you to think we didn't care about performance. We did— a lot. We just think most people do performance optimization badly.
There's a lot of superstition on the internet about how to structure your code so it's fast. In our experience, following this advice usually does not make your code fast. Most people have bad intuition about performance.
To counter this, you have to constantly measure the performance of your code.
There's 2 parts to this idea.
1. Most things are fast enough that optimizing them is not worth making the code less readable, and is a waste of time.
2. Measuring, rewriting, and repeating is the right way to do performance anyway, full stop. There's lots of superstition around performance, which is absurd because it's extraordinarily measurable.
For point 1:
We goalled on a clear and flexible style, which helped us move incredibly fast with very few people. See https://norvig.com/spell-correct.html for an example of a golden piece of code in this style. Rewriting for performance takes moves us away from that goal.
Most of the code we wrote was fast enough (It's not because we're brilliant coders: we just realized that most of the code we wrote ran on arrays with few enough elements that even O(n^2) algos could run in For point 2:
There's no such thing as “fast” code and “slow” code— you can put in the work to optimize any piece of code, and make it incrementally faster.
Because you can put in work to optimize any particular code, we either budgeted hours of engineering time for performance, or set performance goals. In either case, you want to spend your time optimizing the code that's the slowest, so you get the most “bang for your buck.”
Most people have terrible intuitions about performance. We certainly did— if we'd prematurely optimized the things we'd thought were going to be slow, we'd have wasted a ton of time
I felt there were lots of superstitions about performance that were just wrong. For example, considering big-O time complexity was often wrong for us, because our n was usually pretty low, so we were dominated by constant factors.
Performance is incredibly measurable. You should always measure, rewrite, and repeat until you hit your perf budget. Otherwise you're just shooting in the dark.
Because we goalled on clean code, tearing and replacing whole subsystems for performance was relatively easy.
Re: Pagedraw is shutting down and going open source
#64Earlier quoted context omitted.
Well, as someone else said, it's not always black or white. Videogames MUST deliver performance, it's not only sales. Some desktop AND web applications could benefit from some performance boost here and there, and I mean being fast enough and not some abominations I've seen/heard about (minutes to get Excel files and examples like that, just because they're "thousands" of rows from a database). You know, sales is eve…
Minecraft is generally known to be fairly poorly optimised, and the graphics weren't great. Mist was mostly a series of static images. They are two of the best selling games of all time.
Myst was at the cutting edge of technology at the time. They had to write some weird custom extensions in order to jam color into HyperCard at all. (Myst was initially written in HyperCard!) One could argue that designing the game around static images that could be rendered offline was itself an optimization. It gave the illusion of an immersive 3D space within the very harsh limitations of early Macs.
Also, the couple of QuickTime videos used in the game were very carefully integrated into a surrounding static image to give the illusion of an entire live scene while only animating a small rectangle of it because that's all most computers could handle at the time.
Myst is a fantastic example of making very thoughtful performance decisions given the constraints at the time.
Re: Pagedraw is shutting down and going open source
#65I like the subtle nod through capitalization in the phrase "It’s been An Incredible Journey".
> We’re moving on, but We’re very proud of the technology we’ve built.
Re: Pagedraw is shutting down and going open source
#66One absolute rule for success in software is that there are no absolute rules. From their post mortem https://medium.com/@gabriel_20625/technical-lessons-from-bui... > Performance is never a justification for anything if you haven’t measured it This just isn't true. Anyone with a reasonable amount of experience is often able to look ahead - well before any code is written - and see how performance could be better if…
Hi— Jared from Pagedraw here. (Stunned that this is the top comment on HN.) I stand by what we wrote 100%, but to add some color: I don't want you to think we didn't care about performance. We did— a lot. We just think most people do performance optimization badly. There's a lot of superstition on the internet about how to structure your code so it's fast. In our experience, following this advice usually does not mak…
Re: Pagedraw is shutting down and going open source
#67Re: Pagedraw is shutting down and going open source
#68Re: Pagedraw is shutting down and going open source
#69One absolute rule for success in software is that there are no absolute rules. From their post mortem https://medium.com/@gabriel_20625/technical-lessons-from-bui... > Performance is never a justification for anything if you haven’t measured it This just isn't true. Anyone with a reasonable amount of experience is often able to look ahead - well before any code is written - and see how performance could be better if…
Its comments like this that make people hate HN. I agree with their writeup fully. They focused wayyyy too much on performance and not enough on an MVP, pivoting, marketing, growth, and staying agile. I would love to get all these "Performance First! Its so easy" engineers in a room for a week. Hell, give em three weeks and they still wouldn't have a single line of code written. But they would still be arguing about…
"Steak before sizzle"
Get something done and working, even if performance sucks. Then do your performance logging and optimizations. Don't attempt to pre-optimize, because you may make a good situation worse.
That doesn't preclude selecting correct algorithms and such beforehand; ie - don't be stupid about it. But don't try to be clever before you know you need it, either.
Second thing I always think should be necessary for any software project:
Get your security design working first.
Don't try to patch in security after the fact; if this isn't at the top of your design and planning, it should be (assuming the project needs it or can be foreseen to need it). Too often I have witnessed the opposite - and it almost never works without major refactoring (or scrapping and starting over).
Re: Pagedraw is shutting down and going open source
#70One absolute rule for success in software is that there are no absolute rules. From their post mortem https://medium.com/@gabriel_20625/technical-lessons-from-bui... > Performance is never a justification for anything if you haven’t measured it This just isn't true. Anyone with a reasonable amount of experience is often able to look ahead - well before any code is written - and see how performance could be better if…
Its comments like this that make people hate HN. I agree with their writeup fully. They focused wayyyy too much on performance and not enough on an MVP, pivoting, marketing, growth, and staying agile. I would love to get all these "Performance First! Its so easy" engineers in a room for a week. Hell, give em three weeks and they still wouldn't have a single line of code written. But they would still be arguing about…
I don’t know about this. I generally end up building the things that have already been sold.