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Pagedraw is shutting down and going open source

pagedraw.io

21–30 of 120 posts

Re: Pagedraw is shutting down and going open source

#21
post #11

One absolute rule for success in software is that there are no absolute rules. From their post mortem https://medium.com/@gabriel_20625/technical-lessons-from-bui... > Performance is never a justification for anything if you haven’t measured it This just isn't true. Anyone with a reasonable amount of experience is often able to look ahead - well before any code is written - and see how performance could be better if…

Paragraph 3

We don’t think any lesson here should be taken as an “always true” type thing.

Re: Pagedraw is shutting down and going open source

#22

Sorry to hear about the shutdown, and it looks like it was a pretty useful tool. Great that they open sourced it. The source code looks very interesting (and a bit unusual for a React app.) [1] Looks like Coffeescript + "Coffeescript JSX", which I hadn't heard of before. I didn't look too closely, but I didn't see how they're doing state management in the editor. No Redux in the package.json [2]. I was hoping that I…

The reason they didn't use redux was explained in the medium post.[1]

> We just used global mutable state instead of the whole immutable Reduxy patterns people liked to enforce. It was simple and it worked great.

[1] https://medium.com/@gabriel_20625/technical-lessons-from-bui...

Re: Pagedraw is shutting down and going open source

#23
post #11

One absolute rule for success in software is that there are no absolute rules. From their post mortem https://medium.com/@gabriel_20625/technical-lessons-from-bui... > Performance is never a justification for anything if you haven’t measured it This just isn't true. Anyone with a reasonable amount of experience is often able to look ahead - well before any code is written - and see how performance could be better if…

> Performance is never a justification for anything if you haven’t measured it

A "justification" implies that there is a compromise being made in the name of performance. It's very reasonable to choose, in the first iteration of a program, to choose to disregard performance concerns in favor of readability, which is exactly the context of how they framed it.

When you make the big initial decisions based on readability, that informs all the rest of your choices in working on that piece of code. If you skip a few steps ahead because e.g. "we're making some extra database calls here, so we should grab all the data we need the first time instead", you'll find it much more difficult to optimize your way back to the most readable code possible.

Is it the only way to write software? Of course not. And it may make more sense for the systems and frameworks they use than for yours. But I for one admire their willingness to have a point of view and a principle when it comes to writing code. I don't think it's madness. And I don't think you're wrong either. I just don't think you would have been a good fit for their team. By putting their philosophy out there, they help make that clear. And likewise! I don't begrudge your philosophy, and I think it's often correct. But please don't accuse others of drama and clickbait for describing strong opinions.

Re: Pagedraw is shutting down and going open source

#24
post #11

One absolute rule for success in software is that there are no absolute rules. From their post mortem https://medium.com/@gabriel_20625/technical-lessons-from-bui... > Performance is never a justification for anything if you haven’t measured it This just isn't true. Anyone with a reasonable amount of experience is often able to look ahead - well before any code is written - and see how performance could be better if…

Paragraph 3 We don’t think any lesson here should be taken as an “always true” type thing.

Which is entirely inconsistent with the statement "Performance is never a justification for anything if you haven’t measured it".

Re: Pagedraw is shutting down and going open source

#25
post #19

I'm actually really disappointed that I found out about them because they're shutting down. This looks perfect to me because I've been wanting to make some sites fast but I don't have the time to expand my React skills currently. Does anyone have a good recommendation for an alternative?

Use the open-source desktop app they released.

Interesting, is the desktop app on their Github the final version?

Re: Pagedraw is shutting down and going open source

#26

very interested in the vuejs implementation. How soon is soon, now that its moving to open source?

Me too :)

I didn't find "vue" anywhere in the source except for the logo in the landing page. No branches besides master, so if there was any effort put in to supporting Vue by the pagedraw team it didn't make it to this open source release.

Still, it's great the source got released, thank you Pagedraw folks!

Re: Pagedraw is shutting down and going open source

#27
post #2

I like the subtle nod through capitalization in the phrase "It’s been An Incredible Journey".

For those that haven't seen it: https://ourincrediblejourney.tumblr.com/

(though unlike most of the startups on that blog, Pagedraw seems to be shutting down in the most open and responsible way)

Re: Pagedraw is shutting down and going open source

#28
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Paragraph 3 We don’t think any lesson here should be taken as an “always true” type thing.

Which is entirely inconsistent with the statement "Performance is never a justification for anything if you haven’t measured it".

Dude. This is just how people talk. It's called hyperbole and it's a rhetorical technique. Like "never talk to the cops without a lawyer". Really? Never?

"Hi, nice to see you guys here. This is my husband. He's a policeman"

"I would like to talk to my lawyer"

Because we know the world isn't black and white we're able to interpret these statements. It's human speech. Lots of the details are left out because conciseness is gold.

Re: Pagedraw is shutting down and going open source

#29
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Though unlike an Incredible Journey, this is the right way to shut down: Open up your code and contribute what you did to society.

Maybe, maybe not. Did they have investors? The code is an asset. Can they sell the code/IP for any significant amount of money? If so, they should do that and pay back the investors/reduce their losses. Maybe there are no buyers, or the investors are on board with the open-source plan, who knows. But it's not always the right answer or even possible.

This is a very narrow view. The code is not just a company asset, it's a customer asset as well, and their needs ought to be considered as well. Have you ever had software you were using just stop working because remote servers failed or something of the sort? What about if they never fixed that problem?

Software isn't exactly like buying groceries where you can go to a different grocer and get a different, equivalent solution. Instead, it's more like a bakery, where a baker has their own (in software terms, proprietary) recipe that they use. If that bakery goes away, their recipe might go too, and that would directly affect those who buy their bread, especially if it was a joint that sold to other businesses, as software normally is. If I were that baker, and I went bankrupt, I would probably give that recipe to my customers- after all, I can't profit off of it, but they still need it.

Unless I'm extremely mistaken, they haven't been bought by anyone else and won't be resuming operations ever. If they had been bought out, that would be different- their storefront would still exist, albeit somewhere else, likely- and people would still be able to get your products.

I am a believer in Right to Repair, and the overall principle here is similar- documentation of products is really helpful in fixing things, and if a company goes out of business, and has no recourse or any way to deliver support, it would be amazing for customers if they publicly released as much documentation as possible.

To be clear, I don't think that using an old thing forever is a good idea, but it often takes a long time to find something else that fits the bill perfectly.

Re: Pagedraw is shutting down and going open source

#30
post #11

One absolute rule for success in software is that there are no absolute rules. From their post mortem https://medium.com/@gabriel_20625/technical-lessons-from-bui... > Performance is never a justification for anything if you haven’t measured it This just isn't true. Anyone with a reasonable amount of experience is often able to look ahead - well before any code is written - and see how performance could be better if…

Only 20k LOC in 3 years is impressive. And I agree that you should watch out for premature optimization an premature abstraction. What i found most interesting was using coffeescript that compiles to js that compiles to react that compiles to js. They might have been too focused on the technical side. You should probably pick the most boring and proven tech stack and focused more on the actual problem.
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