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Facebook wants up to 30% of fan subscriptions vs Patreon’s 5%

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Re: Facebook wants up to 30% of fan subscriptions vs Patreon’s 5%

#191

Post by bolzano »

koonsolo wrote: post #187
bolzano wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is Apple have a monopoly. Your supply/demand point is facile. For small indie developers 30% is an outrageous cut. That is what the complaint is about.

> For small indie developers 30% is an outrageous cut. No indie game developer that has been around for a while would say this. A 30% cut is way less than anything else that came before it. Steam also allows you to sell Steam keys from wherever, and you get to keep 100% of that. This is how Humble Bundle works. When you release on Steam, you also get free exposure at first, which is basically free ads. You would othe…

I'm not a game developer and I don't know the Steam setup very well. I would genuinely love to hear from some 'serious indie game developers' though. Do they really think 30% is fair? Or maybe are they, like me, just accepting it and have no other real alternative (Hobson's Choice)...

Which is not exactly happily handing over 30% of your earnings to Steam/Apple.

Also, as mentioned in other replies, Apple explicitly blocks any other licencing path unless you're one of the big boys and can afford lawyers etc...

Re: Facebook wants up to 30% of fan subscriptions vs Patreon’s 5%

#192

Post by rchaud »

Can_Not wrote: post #166
DanielBMarkham wrote: post #96

I remember when reasonably smart cellphones first came out. You could hook them up over USB and change things like ringtones or backgrounds. It was fun. Then manufacturers and cell phone companies started realizing the money train they were on. They made billions by selling this same crap to people who didn't know how or have the time to customize their own phone. As it turns out, billions of dollars tends to get peo…

We're leaving capitalism to enter into a new type of society. Rentierism. Everything is already owned. It's like feudalism, but you can have as many feudal lords as you want to live under--as a service.

Should coincide with a new technological paradigm in on-demand labour contracting. They should give it a catchy name, like VaaS: Vassal as a Service.

Re: Facebook wants up to 30% of fan subscriptions vs Patreon’s 5%

#193

Post by astrodust »

ceejayoz wrote: post #145
bolzano wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is Apple have a monopoly. Your supply/demand point is facile. For small indie developers 30% is an outrageous cut. That is what the complaint is about.

Apple has a "monopoly" over the app store as much as Disney has a monopoly on Disney movies.

It's more like if Disney owned the DVD standard and could dictate who could and couldn't put content on it.

Then we'd all have a half dozen completely incompatible physical media players and so on.

Re: Facebook wants up to 30% of fan subscriptions vs Patreon’s 5%

#194

Post by rchaud »

black_puppydog wrote: post #117
vntok wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> By posting content to Patreon you grant us a royalty-free, perpetual, irrevocable, non-exclusive, sublicensable, worldwide license to use, reproduce, distribute, perform, publicly display or prepare derivative works of your content. "Perpetual and irrevocable" means that it continues even after you stop using their service.

With the difference that much of what "happens" on patreon is not actually hosted there, and thus doesn't fall under that clause if I understand this correctly.

Yeah but I would imagine Patreon is working towards introducing their own video hosting platform at some point and build out their moat. Otherwise they're a glorified Paypal button.

Re: Facebook wants up to 30% of fan subscriptions vs Patreon’s 5%

#195

Post by astrodust »

gnicholas wrote: post #3

How is this a "Patreon killer" at all? In addition to the extra 25% cut, they will also apparently demand IP rights that would continue even after you stop using their service. Are they thinking that people will sign up for this because it gives them instant access to lots of people on FB, and that justifies the higher percentage? I'm guessing that creators will end up having to pay to get exposure, just like brands,…

Oh, they'll kill Patreon by deprioritizing Patreon links in user feeds.

Re: Facebook wants up to 30% of fan subscriptions vs Patreon’s 5%

#196

Post by ck425 »

yorwba wrote: post #92
nspkr wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many countries in the EU have blasphemy laws and the European Court of Human Rights says they are okay: https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2018/10/its-not-fr... If someone criticised Jesus Christ in their podcast (for example), they would be putting Liberapay at risk. I don't believe Liberapay would allow that, so they'd just ban the user. That's what makes Liberapay a risky option.

That podcaster might be ordered to cease the blasphemy, and if they don't comply their website might be blocked, but I don't think that puts Liberapay at risk if they don't operate as a publishing platform but only handle payments. That woman didn't lose her bank account, did she?

While many EU countries duo have blasphemy laws, they're almost never enforced. They're laws that the majority of people find ridiculous and would be quickly removed if anyone started to actually enforce them. If Liberapay did block someone for blasphemy without being legally compelled, they'd likely face a huge backlash themselves. If they were legally compelled the law would soon be changed.

Re: Facebook wants up to 30% of fan subscriptions vs Patreon’s 5%

#197

Post by DanielBMarkham »

rchaud wrote: post #192
Can_Not wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We're leaving capitalism to enter into a new type of society. Rentierism. Everything is already owned. It's like feudalism, but you can have as many feudal lords as you want to live under--as a service.

Should coincide with a new technological paradigm in on-demand labour contracting. They should give it a catchy name, like VaaS: Vassal as a Service.

You know, renting out by the hour the right for services to give you free stuff and vie for your attention span might actually work.

E-gads we live in a weird world

Re: Facebook wants up to 30% of fan subscriptions vs Patreon’s 5%

#198

Post by eropple »

bolzano wrote: post #186
eropple wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For Steam specifically, I can state with confidence that that's not true. On a phone at the moment so linking is difficult, but Jeff Vogel (the definitional "indie developer", there are very few people who have been doing it as long or as consistently) has a GDC talk on YouTube where he goes through his numbers--and he's a guy who went to Steam very late overall. Steam's bigger marketplace and that it removes the unc…

Thanks for that. Big fan of Jeff Vogel. Hadn't seen that talk so a link would be great. I'm not saying Apple don't provide a service, of course they do, though at times it sucks. My main point is about is about the price, not the principle. I pay Apple a yearly subscription just to develop for their platform. On top of that every sale I make they get 30%. Would 95% be ok? Another extreme element of this is that I can…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stxVBJem3Rs

And I don't, tbh, have an opinion about the rest of your post; I'm talking about Steam, not Apple.

But, having gone down this road myself (and why I cite the Jeff Vogel talk): you would almost certainly spend more than 30% on customer support and payment processing and fraud protection and accounting. Or you would do it incorrectly, which is worse. And, regardless, you'd expose yourself to a way smaller audience. It seems to me to be a good way to shoot yourself in the foot for no gain (and as an app developer myself I certainly wouldn't bother).

Re: Facebook wants up to 30% of fan subscriptions vs Patreon’s 5%

#199

Post by [deleted] »

aikah wrote: post #112
jrockway wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Backups. Why commit to reliable destruction of data when you don't have to? Google has a guarantee on when your deleted data disappears from tapes in vaults, and it was something that every engineer at the company had to think about (not to mention a ton of work in actually implementing it). You may wish for Some New Startup with 2 engineers to do it for you, but it's hard, takes time, and nobody actually cares. Look…

> Backups. Why commit to reliable destruction of data when you don't have to? That argument makes no sense if you're talking about publishing, AKA making something available to the public.

[deleted]

Re: Facebook wants up to 30% of fan subscriptions vs Patreon’s 5%

#200

Post by duskwuff »

kosievdmerwe wrote: post #81
duskwuff wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple and Google provide significant added value in their app stores: distribution, discoverability, licensing, testing (at least in Apple's case)... etc. Patreon is not that. At its heart, it's primarily a service for collecting donations. There is some content hosting, but that's kind of a secondary feature.

What content can you host on Patreon? I only really have experience with authors and text is cheap to host. Can you host video?

Text and images. It's pretty basic, mostly meant as a way for project creators to provide updates on what they've been doing.
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