The entire education system is essentially one big game, from the obscure admissions process to professors sticking to predetermined grading distributions; and these students are simply playing along.
Prof Gives Lecture to Prove He Knows Students Cheated; Over 200 Students Confess
41–50 of 147 posts
Re: Prof Gives Lecture to Prove He Knows Students Cheated; Over 200 Students Confess
#42I don't think it is really possible to keep a question bank secret. Some students tend to follow up with those who had taken the course last time, at least in my university. So if the question bank is voluminous enough , why not just make it open ? Whats the worst that can happen, people might go through it and learn all the solutions. Well, let them, that's the purpose of the course anyways. But the question bank ca…
> I suspect part of the "forensics" was a bluff.
I agree. It sounds an awful lot like a bluff.
While in college I worked as a teaching assistant, on a few occasions me and my staff identified cheaters.
No one ever got caught by getting the right answer. Cheaters got caught when they had mistakes in common.
Re: Prof Gives Lecture to Prove He Knows Students Cheated; Over 200 Students Confess
#43So, at least where I went to school (Georgia Tech) it is well known and accepted that students have word of basically every question that's ever been asked for any given course. Professors also commonly post previous exams as study guides for courses. Is this not common elsewhere?
It's exactly the same at Leiden University.
Re: Prof Gives Lecture to Prove He Knows Students Cheated; Over 200 Students Confess
#44Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think that if the instructors are allowed to be lazy enough to use a test bank, then students can't be blamed for using it as well.
I'm shocked to see so many pro-cheating comments get up-voted on HN. Why shouldn't a community of professors be able to cache and re-use questions? The bank should have been secured, yes. But caching/pooling is on ethical ground more solid than that of cheating.
On the other hand the prof shouldn't say that he makes the tests himself if he does not. If the professor told you that he'd make his own test then studying from existing tests isn't cheating, right? It's the professor passing others' work off as his own. This video looks like a professor trying to save his own ass by blaming it on the students.
You could say the students that used this test to practice should have informed the professor when they noticed that the test was identical to the one they practiced with. However, if you look at how defensive this prof is, that would have been quite risky for that student. You would risk being accused of cheating. So instead somebody did it anonymously.
Re: Prof Gives Lecture to Prove He Knows Students Cheated; Over 200 Students Confess
#45Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think that if the instructors are allowed to be lazy enough to use a test bank, then students can't be blamed for using it as well.
I'm shocked to see so many pro-cheating comments get up-voted on HN. Why shouldn't a community of professors be able to cache and re-use questions? The bank should have been secured, yes. But caching/pooling is on ethical ground more solid than that of cheating.
Because using previous tests is a common (and presumably ethical) method to study for previous exams.
As noted in the previous thread, it might have been a good idea for the students to have said "Hey, we've seen these questions before." But the professor using a bank of test questions changes the situation from "a bunch of students stole the test" to "the professor maybe should have used questions that people didn't have ready access to."
Re: Prof Gives Lecture to Prove He Knows Students Cheated; Over 200 Students Confess
#46Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes, it is really cheating. A publisher's test bank is very clearly not made for students to study from. The publishers warn students not to read them and try to make them inaccessible. In my experience, the professor almost always tells students what they can use to study from. Whether students can use past exams is almost always clarified - I wonder if a student asked in this case. However, here the instructor has…
To me, the morality of what they did is less interesting than the practical ethics of it. The assessment they gamed by accessing the test bank is meant to provide feedback for how well they are acquiring the material. Getting the answers from the test bank means they were more interested in gaming the system for the credential than they were in feedback about where they need to strengthen their understanding. That su…
If you've ever been to business school, then you'll know that most of the students clearly don't give a shit about the course material. I mean what kind of 18 year old kid would care about the pricing of a zero-coupon bond?
Re: Prof Gives Lecture to Prove He Knows Students Cheated; Over 200 Students Confess
#47For most courses the exams don't stray far from what's already been asked before. Competition between universities has made this problem a lot worse. Students choose courses with high pass rates and favorable grade ratios.
Re: Prof Gives Lecture to Prove He Knows Students Cheated; Over 200 Students Confess
#48Earlier quoted context omitted.
I guess an important question is whether this test bank is supposed to be accessible only to instructors. Presumably a test bank would contain enough questions for several tests, so it isn't necessary that there were any repeats from previous semesters.
I think that if the instructors are allowed to be lazy enough to use a test bank, then students can't be blamed for using it as well.
This is completely wrong. If the students are allowed to use the test bank questions, then it's ethical. If it's not provided to them, or they obtain it surreptitiously, then it's cheating. Practice tests are allowed for the SATs, but previewing the questions was clearly not allowed in this case. These rules are arbitrary, but real. Just because certain exams are open-book, doesn't mean all students are entitled to bring reference materials to all exams.
Rules matter.
PS - That's the difference between school and real life.
Re: Prof Gives Lecture to Prove He Knows Students Cheated; Over 200 Students Confess
#49But was it really cheating? Some students have pointed out that the professor said repeatedly that he composed the tests himself. Given that, then plausibly, using example tests from other sources would be a legitimate preparation method. (For example, the SAT doesn't penalize people for reviewing lots of practice tests, because it's assumed the actual questions during a real test will be novel.) See: http://www.tech…
Yes, it is really cheating. A publisher's test bank is very clearly not made for students to study from. The publishers warn students not to read them and try to make them inaccessible. In my experience, the professor almost always tells students what they can use to study from. Whether students can use past exams is almost always clarified - I wonder if a student asked in this case. However, here the instructor has…
I think he was bluffing... but it obviously worked.
Re: Prof Gives Lecture to Prove He Knows Students Cheated; Over 200 Students Confess
#50Your job as a teacher or as a presenter is to extend the available materials, and to provide me with insights that I might not gain from Googling existing materials.
Not to prevent me from accessing the available materials.
Not to control access to information.
If what I am learning from your teachings and from your tests and from other students can be entirely replaced by Googling through test banks, then you're not helping me advance.
If a presenter is reading off the slides?
If you're not utilizing what is available, whether Google or Khan Academy or iTunes classes or otherwise, you're not helping me make connections. To think. To research.
We see similar transitions arising in many human pursuits. In journalism. Booking travel. Financial markets. Programming. Music. And education. And in an earlier era of teaching, simply bringing calculators to a test.
Don't make me memorize. Make me think. Make me research.
It appears the professor has unwittingly also proved his teaching approach has failed.