Liberapay – A recurrent donations platform • Hacker News Board

Re: Liberapay – A recurrent donations platform

#41

Post by q3k » Thu, Feb 28, 2019, 1:45 PM UTC

vgoh1 wrote: post #34

gilrain wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hopefully they will police hate speech and other forms of speech which are rightly illegal due to their inherent intention to infringe on other people’s rights, yes. You can use a hateful platform like Hatreon if you wish to spread those views. Because your freedom of speech isn’t being trampled on, it’s just that civilized people don’t want you junking up their property.

Companies need to leave the policing to the police. Also, hate speech is not illegal in USA, nor should it be. It is a complicated issue - everything that is wrong should not be illegal or banned.

It is, thankfully, illegal in France, and as such Liberapay does have to police it. Again, if you want to spread hate speech, you'll have to use another platform.

Re: Liberapay – A recurrent donations platform

#42

Post by worble » Thu, Feb 28, 2019, 1:50 PM UTC

mcherm wrote: post #33

worble wrote: post #14

This seems really great, I was thinking of doing something like this recently as well, although I was thinking more along lines of: - I have a set amount of money I wish to give each month (say £200) - Given I have setup x amount of people I wish to donate to, the system will automatically spread my money evenly amongst the creators, or using a given weighting provided - I'll be able to add any new creators to this l…

Then you should take a look at Flattr " rel="nofollow">https://flattr.com/> . They are older than Patreon (although they never got the same level of widespread use as Patreon) and they operate in exactly the manner you describe.

Huh, can't believe I hadn't seen this before. I suppose the main problem with all of these systems is that the creator ultimately has to sign up to them in first place, and unfortunately all these smaller sites just don't have the people I want to donate to on them. There's no quick and easy answer to that unfortunately, outside of trying to federate some kind of standard for all donations that clients could plug into, and we all know how that goes[0]

[0]http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/standards.png

Re: Liberapay – A recurrent donations platform

#43

Post by fwn » Thu, Feb 28, 2019, 1:54 PM UTC

gsnedders wrote: post #28

hkai wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The question is not the money, the question is freedom of speech. A platform taking a commission is no big deal compared to the fact that it is allowed to determine what opinions are allowed and what aren't.

Unfortunately, as long as they're relying on Stripe and PayPal there are 1imitations to what is and isn't allowed: there are plenty of things that US payment processors make hard to deal with.

Not trying to dispute your point, but out of curiosity: Is that actually true?

> Donations to [...] can be paid using: a credit or debit card (Visa, MasterCard, American Express), a Euro bank account (SEPA Direct Debit), or a PayPal account.

Could I send money through my regular European bank without using Stripe to pay on Liberapay? Does anyone know how they've implemented that?

Re: Liberapay – A recurrent donations platform

#44

Post by gadders » Thu, Feb 28, 2019, 1:57 PM UTC

gilrain wrote: post #24

ancorevard wrote: post #7

More important than the 0% commission is how open this platform will actually be, or will it also engage in politics and police certain speech as they see fit?

Hopefully they will police hate speech and other forms of speech which are rightly illegal due to their inherent intention to infringe on other people’s rights, yes. You can use a hateful platform like Hatreon if you wish to spread those views. Because your freedom of speech isn’t being trampled on, it’s just that civilized people don’t want you junking up their property.

Who defines "Hate Speech"? Is Donald Trump hate speech? Antifa?

Re: Liberapay – A recurrent donations platform

#45

Post by gadders » Thu, Feb 28, 2019, 1:59 PM UTC

q3k wrote: post #41

vgoh1 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Companies need to leave the policing to the police. Also, hate speech is not illegal in USA, nor should it be. It is a complicated issue - everything that is wrong should not be illegal or banned.

It is, thankfully, illegal in France, and as such Liberapay does have to police it. Again, if you want to spread hate speech, you'll have to use another platform.

Given that Jean-Marie Le Pen was able to campaign for years, I find it hard to believe it is illegal.

Re: Liberapay – A recurrent donations platform

#46

Post by fwn » Thu, Feb 28, 2019, 2:07 PM UTC

q3k wrote: post #41

vgoh1 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Companies need to leave the policing to the police. Also, hate speech is not illegal in USA, nor should it be. It is a complicated issue - everything that is wrong should not be illegal or banned.

It is, thankfully, illegal in France, and as such Liberapay does have to police it. Again, if you want to spread hate speech, you'll have to use another platform.

Most of the time no one actually "wants to spread hate speech". It's a category used to gain power by evoking government backed oppression of ideological enemies.

...and in some rare cases there is also actual hate speech in the sense of a countries respective laws. (Those laws are pretty diverse and far from universal.)

In functioning legal systems this latter, tiny set of cases is determined by judges. In other systems it's chosen through other means like corporations, priests, some mob or something.

With platforms as the rising way of public discourse courts are unprepared and just hand it off to somebody else. ...that doesn't mean it's the responsible thing to do.

People will probably still think that's great until the integrated corporations decide to switch sides and start to promote non-mainstream positions.

Re: Liberapay – A recurrent donations platform

#47

Post by fwn » Thu, Feb 28, 2019, 2:23 PM UTC

gadders wrote: post #45

q3k wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is, thankfully, illegal in France, and as such Liberapay does have to police it. Again, if you want to spread hate speech, you'll have to use another platform.

Given that Jean-Marie Le Pen was able to campaign for years, I find it hard to believe it is illegal.

In practice, actual hate speech (the respective local legal norm, not the battle cry) doesn't govern what you can say but how you can say it.

Jean-Marie Le Pen managed to formulate many of his statements in compliance with local hate speech regulations. Far from all of them, though. See:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean-Marie_Le_Pen#Issues_and_p...

Re: Liberapay – A recurrent donations platform

#48

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Feb 28, 2019, 2:31 PM UTC

Forbo wrote: post #19

ancorevard wrote: post #7

More important than the 0% commission is how open this platform will actually be, or will it also engage in politics and police certain speech as they see fit?

Their platform their rules. Don't like it, then use hatreon or a direct payment method like cryptocurrency donations.

[deleted]

Re: Liberapay – A recurrent donations platform

#49

Post by ancorevard » Thu, Feb 28, 2019, 2:41 PM UTC

gilrain wrote: post #24

ancorevard wrote: post #7

More important than the 0% commission is how open this platform will actually be, or will it also engage in politics and police certain speech as they see fit?

Hopefully they will police hate speech and other forms of speech which are rightly illegal due to their inherent intention to infringe on other people’s rights, yes. You can use a hateful platform like Hatreon if you wish to spread those views. Because your freedom of speech isn’t being trampled on, it’s just that civilized people don’t want you junking up their property.

What is hate speech?

We all (hopefully) agrees that hate speech is immoral and bad. But once you attempt to define it, and even more importantly, once you get specific and try to police it you will learn how slippery that slope is.

Re: Liberapay – A recurrent donations platform

#50

Post by gsnedders » Thu, Feb 28, 2019, 2:53 PM UTC

fwn wrote: post #43

gsnedders wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately, as long as they're relying on Stripe and PayPal there are 1imitations to what is and isn't allowed: there are plenty of things that US payment processors make hard to deal with.

Not trying to dispute your point, but out of curiosity: Is that actually true? > Donations to [...] can be paid using: a credit or debit card (Visa, MasterCard, American Express), a Euro bank account (SEPA Direct Debit), or a PayPal account. Could I send money through my regular European bank without using Stripe to pay on Liberapay? Does anyone know how they've implemented that?

Huh, weird.

On the creator side, they say:

> We currently support processing payments through Stripe and PayPal.

From that point of view, they could potentially get stuck paying creators operating in what Visa/MasterCard/etc. consider high-risk categories.