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France’s new high-speed trains

citylab.com

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Re: France’s new high-speed trains

#111

Post by titanix2 »

glandium wrote: post #95
titanix2 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It doesn't need to open up the network to competition. I think this is mandated by the EU. And it could be a good thing. I'm personally fed up to be treated like a thief when I forgot composting my ticket (which happen because there is not gate to access the rails) or when I could not buy it in the first place (some station doesn't have have vending machines). Also the price lottery for TGV tickets is infuriating (…

The JR service comes at a cost. Shinkansen tickets are vastly more expensive than TGV.

Yes it's a bit more expensive but the trains themselves are way more confortable, most of the time on schedule and drive at full operational speed all the time because they rails are made for it. With TGV on the other hand you have a few sections which are standard rails and thus you the train drive at a normal (low) speed...

Re: France’s new high-speed trains

#112

Post by titanix2 »

ambicapter wrote: post #42
titanix2 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It doesn't need to open up the network to competition. I think this is mandated by the EU. And it could be a good thing. I'm personally fed up to be treated like a thief when I forgot composting my ticket (which happen because there is not gate to access the rails) or when I could not buy it in the first place (some station doesn't have have vending machines). Also the price lottery for TGV tickets is infuriating (…

For english speakers, "composting" here means punching a ticket. I never understood where the word came from, and I'm a native French speaker.

Thanks for having filled the "exercice left to the reader" as I didn't know the correct word!

Re: France’s new high-speed trains

#113

Post by divbyzer0 »

pmontra wrote: post #81
lultimouomo wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, a 4 hour travel door-to-door on a plane means: * Half an hour to go to the airport * Half an hour passing security and waiting for boarding * 20 minutes between boarding and stable flight when you can start working on your laptop * One hour and 40 minutes when you can work cramped in a noisy environment with terrible air quality * 15 minutes descent and landing * 15 minutes deboarding and getting out of the air…

> Half an hour passing security and waiting for boarding Only 30 minutes sounds optimistic. You also didn't count the time to recover luggage. I've seen people bringing huge suitcases on high speed trains. They couldn't take them in cabin on a flight. Planes are good past the 2 hours flight time IMHO, or across countries where there are no interconnected high speed networks (I'm writing this with Europe in mind.)

My experience with heavy luggage on the French TVG was positive and so efficient Il Duce would be jealous.

My ticket told me where to stand on the platform. When the train pulled to a precise location, I did not have to move any distance. One door for boarding, one for deboarding, passengers did not bump or block each other. Luggage storage located immediately inside train, pass a sliding door to my assigned seat.

The train seemed to stop for less than a minute, we were moving before I took my seat.

No security in boarding station (Morliax), a little over 3 hrs to Paris, 450km as the crow flies.

Perhaps our French colleagues could chime in and let us know if this is a typical experience.

Baggage security in France and other EU countries is quite efficient, not everyone carries bags.

Re: France’s new high-speed trains

#114

Post by solidsnack9000 »

chillacy wrote: post #88
baroffoos wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its part of the US attitude of ignoring modern engineering

Your Intel chips were probably specced out in mils (milli-inches). All the screws are various fractions of an inch. A surprising amount of "modern engineering" uses imperial still. Science at least is all metric.

Yeah, it's a sad situation but one we should be working together to remedy. We all have to get behind and push, though -- it can't be an individual effort.

Re: France’s new high-speed trains

#115

Post by solidsnack9000 »

mamon wrote: post #78
baroffoos wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its part of the US attitude of ignoring modern engineering

I would argue that most of modern engineering originates in USA, with possible exception of automotive industry :)

Much of it has found a home here but it definitely didn't all originate here.

Re: France’s new high-speed trains

#116

Post by titanix2 »

acchow wrote: post #75
supernova87a wrote: post #31

SNCF is fiddling with the wrong things. It doesn't need to separate train operations from rail track network maintenance. It doesn't need to open up the network to competition. What it needs to do is cut the number of excessive public sector workers, reduce costs, and stop running the business like a political arm of the government. I can bet that the reason they think they need to do all these things is that cost pr…

Hong Kong's is profitable mostly because it is run as a real estate company. They acquire land before adding a metro station and then lease/sell the valuable land after adding the station. Why don't other cities do this?

Because it's not East-Asia. It works in HK, Japan, Taiwan or others countries because a train station increase value of the surroundings but in France a train station is a place you want to avoid, especially at night. In any city of a respectable size this is where you have you have a lot of beggars, thieves etc. trying to extorts you cigarettes and money. It is even worse for women that get everything of that plus sexual harassement (and it's not from native French).

Re: France’s new high-speed trains

#117

Post by mcv »

titanix2 wrote: post #111
glandium wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The JR service comes at a cost. Shinkansen tickets are vastly more expensive than TGV.

Yes it's a bit more expensive but the trains themselves are way more confortable, most of the time on schedule and drive at full operational speed all the time because they rails are made for it. With TGV on the other hand you have a few sections which are standard rails and thus you the train drive at a normal (low) speed...

More comfortable than the TGV? The train I'm most familiar with is the Thalys, the high-speed train from Amsterdam to Paris, and I'm not sure if it's more comfortable than other TGVs, but it's always a joy to travel in.

I recently went to London in the Eurostar, and they'd managed to make the train experience feel like a plane. Very disappointing.

Re: France’s new high-speed trains

#118

Post by mcv »

distances wrote: post #87
acchow wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hong Kong's is profitable mostly because it is run as a real estate company. They acquire land before adding a metro station and then lease/sell the valuable land after adding the station. Why don't other cities do this?

I think all land within city limits should be publicly acquired with eminent domain before zoning and building of utilities. No reason to let the land value increase fall to private landowners when it's all due to build-up of public services. Better use the profits for maintaining the services.

That's roughly the case in Amsterdam. All land is technically owned by the city, and homeowners lease it for 50 years. When the lease will run out is always a detail to pay attention to when buying a home.

Re: France’s new high-speed trains

#119

Post by mcv »

eloisant wrote: post #106
jabl wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Separating track, rolling stock and station building into three different companies was nuts. Public subsidy plummeted after privatisation, until inadequate maintenance was identified as cause of the Hatfield crash. Then reached never before seen peaks. They're still fiddling around to try and remove the systemic consequences of how it was privatised. Nothing that even slightly resembles the integrated transport Th…

Netherland is a small country, they don't need bullet trains. The distance from Paris to Marseille is close to 800km, you'd better have a bullet train if you don't want the trip to take a full day.

Netherland is small, but it's not an island. We have high-speed trains to France and Germany, and soon England. The Dutch part of the trip is generally the slowest part, though.

Re: France’s new high-speed trains

#120

Post by close04 »

speedplane wrote: post #86
supernova87a wrote: post #31

SNCF is fiddling with the wrong things. It doesn't need to separate train operations from rail track network maintenance. It doesn't need to open up the network to competition. What it needs to do is cut the number of excessive public sector workers, reduce costs, and stop running the business like a political arm of the government. I can bet that the reason they think they need to do all these things is that cost pr…

> Public rail is a money-losing venture, ... But it's important to have. Just how much money-losing depends on the political environment and skill of the management. Arguably, all public rail should lose money. Quality transportation is a huge economic driver of regional economies. If a rail service is making money, it likely means governments are underinvesting in their own economies.

It usually does. Actually I am not familiar with one example where public rail actually makes a profit, in real terms. All public rail systems I know or have read about are subsidized by the state either directly or via subsidizing the fare for the traveler (or both).
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