Why Drugs That Work in Mice Don't Work in Humans

#1

Post by apsec112 » Wed, Feb 27, 2019, 6:45 PM UTC

Why Drugs That Work in Mice Don't Work in Humans
thelri.org

Re: Why Drugs That Work in Mice Don't Work in Humans

#2

Post by dtech » Thu, Feb 28, 2019, 7:42 AM UTC

Except for maybe the last paragraph, this is not new information to basically anyone performing studies. The problem is we don't have any ethically and scientifically better alternatives.

Re: Why Drugs That Work in Mice Don't Work in Humans

#3

Post by narrator » Thu, Feb 28, 2019, 7:56 AM UTC

What about drugs that work in humans, but not in mice? Could you ever get them into trials without animal data?

Re: Why Drugs That Work in Mice Don't Work in Humans

#4

Post by karosass1 » Thu, Feb 28, 2019, 8:19 AM UTC

Short answer: Humans are not mice

Re: Why Drugs That Work in Mice Don't Work in Humans

#5

Post by danieltillett » Thu, Feb 28, 2019, 8:23 AM UTC

While mice are not humans (who would have known), we could do a lot better by moving away from using inbred mice.

More positively we could make a lot more use of domestic pets in research. If we started to treat more pets as research subjects we could really do a lot of great research.

Re: Why Drugs That Work in Mice Don't Work in Humans

#6

Post by saagarjha » Thu, Feb 28, 2019, 8:26 AM UTC

danieltillett wrote: post #5

While mice are not humans (who would have known), we could do a lot better by moving away from using inbred mice. More positively we could make a lot more use of domestic pets in research. If we started to treat more pets as research subjects we could really do a lot of great research.

Good luck getting people to allow their pets being used for research!

Re: Why Drugs That Work in Mice Don't Work in Humans

#7

Post by pmiller2 » Thu, Feb 28, 2019, 8:31 AM UTC

saagarjha wrote: post #6

danieltillett wrote: post #5

While mice are not humans (who would have known), we could do a lot better by moving away from using inbred mice. More positively we could make a lot more use of domestic pets in research. If we started to treat more pets as research subjects we could really do a lot of great research.

Good luck getting people to allow their pets being used for research!

Beagles are already commonly used in medical research.

Re: Why Drugs That Work in Mice Don't Work in Humans

#8

Post by jz_ » Thu, Feb 28, 2019, 8:31 AM UTC

saagarjha wrote: post #6

danieltillett wrote: post #5

While mice are not humans (who would have known), we could do a lot better by moving away from using inbred mice. More positively we could make a lot more use of domestic pets in research. If we started to treat more pets as research subjects we could really do a lot of great research.

Good luck getting people to allow their pets being used for research!

People are actually very motivated to contribute to science, here's an example of research involving pets and extending their healthspan across aging: http://dogagingproject.com

Phase I clinical trial: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/pmid/28374166/

Phase II is in progress.

Interview with Matt Kaeberlein from the project: https://www.leafscience.org/dr-matt-kaeberlein-the-dog-aging...

Re: Why Drugs That Work in Mice Don't Work in Humans

#9

Post by danieltillett » Thu, Feb 28, 2019, 8:36 AM UTC

saagarjha wrote: post #6

danieltillett wrote: post #5

While mice are not humans (who would have known), we could do a lot better by moving away from using inbred mice. More positively we could make a lot more use of domestic pets in research. If we started to treat more pets as research subjects we could really do a lot of great research.

Good luck getting people to allow their pets being used for research!

People are really keen to allow their pets to be used in research as long as they understand the importance. Pets are a massive resource that is just being wasted.

Re: Why Drugs That Work in Mice Don't Work in Humans

#10

Post by bayesian_horse » Thu, Feb 28, 2019, 9:05 AM UTC

danieltillett wrote: post #5

While mice are not humans (who would have known), we could do a lot better by moving away from using inbred mice. More positively we could make a lot more use of domestic pets in research. If we started to treat more pets as research subjects we could really do a lot of great research.

The purpose of inbred strains is to isolate the effects of the drug and the environment from the genetic effects. Drugs are routinely tested on multiple such strains.

There is a huge variety of mouse strains in use and under development. Basically anything you would see in a "fancy mouse" you can have as a strain.

Pets, like cats and dogs, owned by private owners, are used for studies all the time. And not just for veterinary purposes. Dogs have a wide variety of tumors, and studies on these can be used to inform research for Human oncology.

Beagles, kept in laboratory populations, are routinely used to study the cardiological safety of drugs. Such studies are rarely fatal, and dogs often have several of them during their time in the lab. They live in "colonies" of about 10 dogs each, and they look and behave just like very happy pets, even if a lot less trained. In the cases of the colonies I have been in contact with, they live in the lab for about 6 years, then they are spayed/neutered, get a complete dental and are adopted by private owners, often vets and vet students whom they already know.