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France’s new high-speed trains

citylab.com

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Re: France’s new high-speed trains

#61

Post by ip26 »

jdietrich wrote: post #59
NeedMoreTea wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's really not a fair reflection. Privatisation came after nearly 20 years of Tory under investment and far from adequate under several administrations previously. It was, by the time of Major, a very predictable and well-worn trope. What better way to "prove" your lawn needs a private mowing service than barely mowing the lawn for a decade or two? It's quite easy to see why rolling stock was far beyond expected l…

Rail subsidies are highly regressive. The rail network primarily connects cities to cities via relatively affluent suburbs. If you live on a council estate and work in a factory, it's highly unlikely that you have the option of commuting by rail. Very few workers with below-average incomes have the need to travel from Manchester to London for a meeting. Rail travel is inherently more expensive than other modes and al…

Rail might not be the mode of choice for day laborers. But on a trip around Europe, via probably twenty different trains, I didn't see a single monacle, glass of fine alcohol, or even a suit. Trains were full of very ordinary people, including children and students... The clientele felt very similar to cattle-class air travel.

Re: France’s new high-speed trains

#62

Post by niea_11 »

ambicapter wrote: post #42
titanix2 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It doesn't need to open up the network to competition. I think this is mandated by the EU. And it could be a good thing. I'm personally fed up to be treated like a thief when I forgot composting my ticket (which happen because there is not gate to access the rails) or when I could not buy it in the first place (some station doesn't have have vending machines). Also the price lottery for TGV tickets is infuriating (…

For english speakers, "composting" here means punching a ticket. I never understood where the word came from, and I'm a native French speaker.

Apparently the meaning doesn't come from the verb but from the italian word : "compositore" (according to wikitionary [1] and the larousse dictionary [2])

(again in [1]) "compositore" from italian is equivalent to "compositeur" in french which can mean "a person that writes music" but can also mean "a typographer or compositor".

[1] : https://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/composteur

[2] : https://www.larousse.fr/dictionnaires/francais/composteur/17...

Re: France’s new high-speed trains

#63

Post by simula67 »

supernova87a wrote: post #31

SNCF is fiddling with the wrong things. It doesn't need to separate train operations from rail track network maintenance. It doesn't need to open up the network to competition. What it needs to do is cut the number of excessive public sector workers, reduce costs, and stop running the business like a political arm of the government. I can bet that the reason they think they need to do all these things is that cost pr…

> Public rail is a money-losing venture, in every country (except Hong Kong). That's what "public" means. But it's important to have

Why ? I wish connectivity to airports here in India would improve and railways would just die

Re: France’s new high-speed trains

#64

Post by baroffoos »

ams6110 wrote: post #53
solidsnack9000 wrote: post #49

While high-speed trains are struggling to gain a foothold in some parts of the world (looking at you, California), France’s superfast rail services are looking at a very active, more competitive future. SNCF’s new trains should help it meet the challenge posed by new competitors. Simply called the TGV 2020, these trains offer some clear improvements, as illustrated in the video above. For a start, the train’s shorter…

As a writer, one writes for one's audience. It's a US publication, targeting mainly US readers. Using metric units would be less understandable. It's not like the reason high speed rail doesn't work in the US is because we talk about speed in miles per hour.

Its part of the US attitude of ignoring modern engineering

Re: France’s new high-speed trains

#65

Post by ehmorris »

simula67 wrote: post #63
supernova87a wrote: post #31

SNCF is fiddling with the wrong things. It doesn't need to separate train operations from rail track network maintenance. It doesn't need to open up the network to competition. What it needs to do is cut the number of excessive public sector workers, reduce costs, and stop running the business like a political arm of the government. I can bet that the reason they think they need to do all these things is that cost pr…

> Public rail is a money-losing venture, in every country (except Hong Kong). That's what "public" means. But it's important to have Why ? I wish connectivity to airports here in India would improve and railways would just die

I believe the Hong Kong metro owns and leases the land on top of its stations.

Re: France’s new high-speed trains

#66

Post by pas »

simula67 wrote: post #63
supernova87a wrote: post #31

SNCF is fiddling with the wrong things. It doesn't need to separate train operations from rail track network maintenance. It doesn't need to open up the network to competition. What it needs to do is cut the number of excessive public sector workers, reduce costs, and stop running the business like a political arm of the government. I can bet that the reason they think they need to do all these things is that cost pr…

> Public rail is a money-losing venture, in every country (except Hong Kong). That's what "public" means. But it's important to have Why ? I wish connectivity to airports here in India would improve and railways would just die

Why important? Because public rail makes it possible to connect city centers. Airports are biiiiiiig, noisy, airplanes pollute a lot, and take off and landing is slow. Sure, planes are faster than trains, but they are a lot less efficient.

Yes, it's hard to manage, yes it needs "roads" (tracks), whereas planes have the air, but planes are very much a luxury.

Re: France’s new high-speed trains

#67

Post by pas »

ehmorris wrote: post #65
simula67 wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Public rail is a money-losing venture, in every country (except Hong Kong). That's what "public" means. But it's important to have Why ? I wish connectivity to airports here in India would improve and railways would just die

I believe the Hong Kong metro owns and leases the land on top of its stations.

Also, density. Amtrak [and other big country networks] also has money making routes, but that money is nothing when it comes the losses that need to be offset on the other routes.

Re: France’s new high-speed trains

#68

Post by devcpp »

nerpderp82 wrote: post #55

Quote: That doesn’t necessarily mean an end to SNCF’s dominance of high-speed rail. As things stand, most TGV lines don’t turn a profit but are made feasible by subsidies, paid by a state that clearly sees the economic advantages of an extensive high-speed network. Competitors would either need to make substantial savings on operational costs, or limit themselves to the most lucrative connections, such as the profit-…

That's why it's a monopoly. The region can tell companies "who can make these lines (some profitable, some less) for the lowest subsidies, while fulfilling these other requirements?" Then the private companies compete, one wins and has to serve cake routes as well as empty ones, because the contract with the region makes them do it.

Everyone wants your region? Great, you can lower the subsidies, or even tax the company. No one wants it? Ask for more money from the state, or consider eliminating some useless routes.

Then the monopoly part makes it easy to calculate the profitability of the package and get concrete offers.

Re: France’s new high-speed trains

#69

Post by barry-cotter »

mc32 wrote: post #24
ucaetano wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does Venezuela has to do with the EU?

Economics basics. Support your own industry to maintain a viable industry. Why should India or Australia buy French rolling stock if they themselves won’t deploy it? At that point, close shop.

Argentina supported its domestic auto industry for over 30 years and succeeded in nothing but wasting a ton of money and inconveniencing everyone who wanted a decent car. Import substitution is a great way to pay off your political allies but it’s terroble for all the people who have to pay higher prices for lower quality goods as a result.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Import_substitution_industrial...

Re: France’s new high-speed trains

#70

Post by pathseeker »

supernova87a wrote: post #31

SNCF is fiddling with the wrong things. It doesn't need to separate train operations from rail track network maintenance. It doesn't need to open up the network to competition. What it needs to do is cut the number of excessive public sector workers, reduce costs, and stop running the business like a political arm of the government. I can bet that the reason they think they need to do all these things is that cost pr…

>That's what "public" means.

No, that's not what that means. "public" is just the only place a money-losing venture can continue in perpetuity.

It's very easy for governments to have self-sustaining programs. They are still "public" but they bring in enough money to pay for themselves.

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