Live data from Hacker News

France’s new high-speed trains

citylab.com

51–60 of 239 posts

Re: France’s new high-speed trains

#51

SNCF is fiddling with the wrong things. It doesn't need to separate train operations from rail track network maintenance. It doesn't need to open up the network to competition. What it needs to do is cut the number of excessive public sector workers, reduce costs, and stop running the business like a political arm of the government. I can bet that the reason they think they need to do all these things is that cost pr…

>UK tried this sort of thing and it left everyone with a shittier experience, though they could claim that they successfully privatized the industry -- everyone knows that's a total lie. Passenger volumes have more than doubled since privatisation, after a long period of stagnation under nationalisation. While walk-on fares have increased above the rate of inflation, advance fares are substantially cheaper. The suppo…

That's really not a fair reflection.

Privatisation came after nearly 20 years of Tory under investment and far from adequate under several administrations previously. It was, by the time of Major, a very predictable and well-worn trope. What better way to "prove" your lawn needs a private mowing service than barely mowing the lawn for a decade or two? It's quite easy to see why rolling stock was far beyond expected life.

There was plenty wrong, many of which would have been resolved with adequate funding for newer rolling stock, routes, electrification and capacity. Investments that have come painfully slowly outside the South East, mostly with public funds, since privatisation. The cliche of terrible sandwiches was often true - well if you're being deprived of funds better to keep the train running than the sandwiches fresh. The meals in dining cars managed to stay pretty damn good. Far better than having a trolley service only, for instance.

Major's privatisation was a case of "anything but this". Separating track, rolling stock and station building into three different companies was nuts. Public subsidy plummeted after privatisation, until inadequate maintenance was identified as cause of the Hatfield crash. Then reached never before seen peaks. They're still fiddling around to try and remove the systemic consequences of how it was privatised. Nothing that even slightly resembles the integrated transport The Netherlands can manage.

Season tickets have increased in line with inflation, only because they were pegged by statute to inflation +/- 1%. On the day tickets, which didn't get that protection, have increased vastly in real terms. Don't forget the UK rushed to the car far more than European neighbours - Beeching etc - it's little surprise to see rail growing faster now we have gridlocked roads, having been pruned to almost non-existence.

After 20 years it's not the disaster it might have been - mainly "thanks" to Hatfield - but it's far from a success. Especially outside the South East and on prices. Heaven help you if you ever use the trans Pennine.

Seeing as this is on an article about TGV, just how is UK doing with high speed rail? Northern Powerhouse? Double decker trains?

Re: France’s new high-speed trains

#52
¿Anyone knows why SNCF/Alstom keep favoring two locomotives over an EMU design like the Stadler KISS 200? Seems like more passenger space would also help reduce per-passenger cost and increase efficiency.

(Speed difference aside; the current Alstom Euroduplex does 300 kmph and the Stadler KISS 200 does 200 kmph)

Re: France’s new high-speed trains

#53

While high-speed trains are struggling to gain a foothold in some parts of the world (looking at you, California), France’s superfast rail services are looking at a very active, more competitive future. SNCF’s new trains should help it meet the challenge posed by new competitors. Simply called the TGV 2020, these trains offer some clear improvements, as illustrated in the video above. For a start, the train’s shorter…

As a writer, one writes for one's audience. It's a US publication, targeting mainly US readers. Using metric units would be less understandable.

It's not like the reason high speed rail doesn't work in the US is because we talk about speed in miles per hour.

Re: France’s new high-speed trains

#54

¿Anyone knows why SNCF/Alstom keep favoring two locomotives over an EMU design like the Stadler KISS 200? Seems like more passenger space would also help reduce per-passenger cost and increase efficiency. (Speed difference aside; the current Alstom Euroduplex does 300 kmph and the Stadler KISS 200 does 200 kmph)

Alstom EMU: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AGV_(train)

SNCF doesn't want it because they believe locomotives are cheaper to maintain and they want double-deckers anyway.

Re: France’s new high-speed trains

#55
Quote:

    That doesn’t necessarily mean an end to SNCF’s dominance of 
    high-speed rail. As things stand, most TGV lines don’t turn 
    a profit but are made feasible by subsidies, paid by a 
    state that clearly sees the economic advantages of an 
    extensive high-speed network. Competitors would either need 
    to make substantial savings on operational costs, or limit 
    themselves to the most lucrative connections, such as the 
    profit-making Paris to Lyon route.
This sounds like a perfect way to have private operators take the profit from the cake routes and leave the subsidized routes for the state. Handing over monopolies on a region by region basis doesn't seem like it change much if anything.

Re: France’s new high-speed trains

#56
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For english speakers, "composting" here means punching a ticket. I never understood where the word came from, and I'm a native French speaker.

Wow, thanks for that. I can't find a definition in an English dictionary that was able to make sense of that. It appears to have etymology in Old French composte which comes from Latin "composita" or "compositum" which means something like "something put together". Even crazier I can't figure out how we arrive at the modern meaning of decaying vegetables to make soil...but I can arrive at how we got to "composite" wh…

> Even crazier I can't figure out how we arrive at the modern meaning of decaying vegetables to make soil...

The etymology I see all mentions "composte" as "mixture of leaves, manure, etc., for fertilizing land", which suggests that it started as people using a *composita of manure and plant detritus together to ferment for fertilizer and the word sense shifted from referring to the specific mixture to the general composting process.

Re: France’s new high-speed trains

#57
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s from your taxes (unless the Germans are donating from their coffers), so yeah you should have a local preference if it’s competitive (near as good or better). It adds to local economy and also staves off monopolization of producers.

Nope, it is anti-competitive and bad for the economy, as it creates trade barriers and stifles innovation, as well as using your taxes badly. It essentially accounts to government subsidies for a certain company. And that's why it is illegal in the EU.

Bad for the EU economy, but not necessarily bad for the French economy, which is what the French government should primarily be concerned with. If a German train costs 100 units, and an equivalent French train costs 110 units, but buying the French train gives 40 units to your neighbors and coworkers, why shouldn't the French government buy the French train?

Re: France’s new high-speed trains

#58

"That will give France the most modern high-speed fleet in the world, and the trains will arrive during a critical period for the country’s rail systems." I think China has that.

Japan apologises for China has much, and the train I was on was fab, and they have maglev too, but I don't think all the moment of force here has moved to China. I still rate JR east and JR west.

Re: France’s new high-speed trains

#59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>UK tried this sort of thing and it left everyone with a shittier experience, though they could claim that they successfully privatized the industry -- everyone knows that's a total lie. Passenger volumes have more than doubled since privatisation, after a long period of stagnation under nationalisation. While walk-on fares have increased above the rate of inflation, advance fares are substantially cheaper. The suppo…

That's really not a fair reflection. Privatisation came after nearly 20 years of Tory under investment and far from adequate under several administrations previously. It was, by the time of Major, a very predictable and well-worn trope. What better way to "prove" your lawn needs a private mowing service than barely mowing the lawn for a decade or two? It's quite easy to see why rolling stock was far beyond expected l…

Rail subsidies are highly regressive. The rail network primarily connects cities to cities via relatively affluent suburbs. If you live on a council estate and work in a factory, it's highly unlikely that you have the option of commuting by rail. Very few workers with below-average incomes have the need to travel from Manchester to London for a meeting. Rail travel is inherently more expensive than other modes and always will be, due to the massive infrastructure cost. It's not even lower-carbon than bus travel in the vast majority of cases.

Why should taxpayers subsidise a mode of travel that is inherently used primarily by the wealthy?

Re: France’s new high-speed trains

#60
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow, thanks for that. I can't find a definition in an English dictionary that was able to make sense of that. It appears to have etymology in Old French composte which comes from Latin "composita" or "compositum" which means something like "something put together". Even crazier I can't figure out how we arrive at the modern meaning of decaying vegetables to make soil...but I can arrive at how we got to "composite" wh…

> Even crazier I can't figure out how we arrive at the modern meaning of decaying vegetables to make soil... The etymology I see all mentions "composte" as "mixture of leaves, manure, etc., for fertilizing land", which suggests that it started as people using a *composita of manure and plant detritus together to ferment for fertilizer and the word sense shifted from referring to the specific mixture to the general co…

Ahh, that makes sense.
Post reply on HN