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We Need Chrome No More

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Re: We Need Chrome No More

#301
post #45
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd also add that 2008 Google was trusted by the public a lot more than 2019 Google.

> by the public by technical users I imagine the general public still trusts them all the same or maybe even more.

Technical users are multiplicators though.

Re: We Need Chrome No More

#302
post #256
post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I honestly don't remember what the last time was Chrome introduced some cool new feature in Chrome. Maybe the PDF reader?

PWA, WebComponents, File Access, Worklets and Houdini and everything else in HTML5/CSS3 still missing from ChromeOS are all being pushed by Chrome.

Aside from File Access, I haven't seen any of these. PWA is sometimes mentioned on HN but I've never seen one in the wild (I had to look up the term a few weeks ago). Worklets, WebComponents, and Houdini, I never heard of. I'm not the most in the loop person since I'm not a web developer, but you'd think the cool stuff gets at least mentioned, so going with that, the most recent progressive feature that comes to mind is still the PDF reader (other than general maintenance work to keep up with HTML5, which all browsers do, and which I assume MSIE was also doing in the 4 year period mentioned -- or CSS3 or whatever was hot back then).

Re: We Need Chrome No More

#303

Here's hoping. The proliferation of browser standards has made this appear a more daunting task as time has gone by. There was a point where if you built a good DOM, javascript engine, and a layout engine and had a reasonable ability to fetch resources, you could bootstrap a browser. That's how Konquerer got there. But now, I think we're past that point -- if your browser can't do native video conferencing and opengl…

Better idea:

To move Chrome development to some non-commercial "free world" institution. Like UN for example.

That's the only option to have a) security first and b) free browser.

No other options for free browser. Web client stack is so complex that to finance its development it should be a company that gets income from each browser instance installed. How they do that is a rhetoric question I think.

Re: We Need Chrome No More

#304
post #34

Other browsers need to catch up to Chrome with their development tools. I'd be happy to use Safari or Firefox for development, but... - I can't disable CORS in Firefox (yes, sometimes you have to disable CORS rather than modify the Allow-Origin header response, for example if you need to test against a production backend) (and, no, CORS Everywhere is not a sufficient solution). - I can't inspect WebSocket frames in a…

Yes, totally agreed. I have given Firefox a try several times over the past year, but always came back to Chrome because of Dev Tools.

Re: We Need Chrome No More

#305
post #34

Other browsers need to catch up to Chrome with their development tools. I'd be happy to use Safari or Firefox for development, but... - I can't disable CORS in Firefox (yes, sometimes you have to disable CORS rather than modify the Allow-Origin header response, for example if you need to test against a production backend) (and, no, CORS Everywhere is not a sufficient solution). - I can't inspect WebSocket frames in a…

totally agree. There's one thing that safari has and (afaik) noone else: you can visually inspect all canvas elements on the site even if they are offscreen

Re: We Need Chrome No More

#306
There certainly is a danger of monopolization with chrome garnering an overwhelming majority of user share. However, I'm yet to see the negative in testing with chrome and shipping (assuming you're only using W3C APIs), as most of the time, chrome is fully compliant with W3C, and other browsers simply aren't. Apple is the worst, most guilty of the others, that purposefully cripples iOS Safari to goad users and developers towards the app store. Microsoft probably intended to be fully W3C compliant with Edge, but for whatever reason, they always lagged. And with Mozilla/Firefox, it's always an obtuse, unreasonable argument when they don't comply, they claim it to be in the best interest of the open web, but it is usually a philosophical, more than technical opposition.

Re: We Need Chrome No More

#307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Chrome's appeal was primarily technical. Each tab got its own process and could crash without taking down the entire browser. Curious, I remember speed being the primary reason. Google invented V8 (the javascript engine), with some pretty decent optimizations and a well-working JIT on i386/amd64 platforms. At the time when chromium came out, it handled some JS-heavy applications very nicely that Firefox struggled w…

I'm surprised there aren't more people on here who moved to chome for the dev tools. That is what moved me over there. Firebug was great in it's day but at some point Chrome's dev tools just became too much better to make staying on Firefox possible.

I vaguely remember all of those things as separate phases. - Moving away from IE, I fell in love with Opera (lots of built-in features), most others with Firefox - Chrome comes in, it's Google, it's lightweight, people try it and like it - Chrome gets really fast, it appeals to even more people - Meanwhile, Firefox has enough extension power to replace Opera for me (who can live with the tabs BELOW address bar or without mouse gestures?) - Chrome implements the aforementioned technical stuff (separate processes, etc.), appealing to power users (this may have happened before speed improvements or at the same time) - Chrome finally gets extensions and I start using it personally, but it's impossible to be a web dev without Firefox+Firebug. (IE6 still sucks, but combined with Visual Studio, feels superb for JS debugging) - Chrome's dev tools gradually get better at everything. I start living in Chrome.

... years later ...

- A year ago I often used Firefox for its great Canvas debugger. They broke it. I've since forgotten about Firefox.

... 2019 ...

- Microsoft is trying to drive people away from IE, hoping for Edge adoption. I don't care for Firefox. Opera is almost Chrome with extensions. Edge sounds like it wants to be Chrome. Chrome won on most battlefronts. I don't like that fact, because of the "free from corporate greed" reasons mentioned, but it's going to be hard to change the status quo.

Re: We Need Chrome No More

#308
post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup. I'm using Firefox on macOS as well and suffering from the same bug. If you use your Macbook with the resolution set to 'scaled' Firefox absolutely murders your battery. On top of that there's a bug where H264 video doesn't get properly accelerated. Both these bugs have been in Firefox at least since FF62. Both have alternatingly been marked 'priority 2' or 'fix-optional' which is absolutely baffling to me consid…

It isn't a bug; it's the fact that Firefox uses a transparent window and doesn't yet use Core Animation, which offloads scrolling to the window server. Switching to CA involves heavy lifting inside the compositor and is not an easy task. My planeshift crate does some of the work needed to make the WebRender path use Core Animation. In the meantime, setting gfx.compositor.glcontext.opaque to true in about:config helps…

I'm curious (genuine curiosity, not meant sarcastic), why is Firefox only now switching to CoreAnimation? AFAIK CoreAnimation has been around since Leopard which makes it nearly 12 year old, which is positively ancient in the tech world.

Also, coincidentally, do you know what exactly causes the H264 problem on macOS? I've tried to track it down in bugzilla to no success, but I am 100% sure it is a bug. The energy impact for playing a H264 YouTube video in Safari has an energy impact of ~25. Firefox used to be ~60, but these days its ~180 (!)

> In the meantime, setting gfx.compositor.glcontext.opaque to true in about:config helps battery life significantly, at the cost of rounded corners and vibrancy.

Thanks for this! :)

Re: We Need Chrome No More

#309
post #302
post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

PWA, WebComponents, File Access, Worklets and Houdini and everything else in HTML5/CSS3 still missing from ChromeOS are all being pushed by Chrome.

Aside from File Access, I haven't seen any of these. PWA is sometimes mentioned on HN but I've never seen one in the wild (I had to look up the term a few weeks ago). Worklets, WebComponents, and Houdini, I never heard of. I'm not the most in the loop person since I'm not a web developer, but you'd think the cool stuff gets at least mentioned, so going with that, the most recent progressive feature that comes to mind…

Twitter and Starbucks mobile apps are PWAs.

Houdini allows for low level control of CSS rendering, basically it allows for creating CSS classes with our own paint methods, and in the process having lower level JavaScript concurrency using less resources than workers.

Re: We Need Chrome No More

#310
post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm surprised there aren't more people on here who moved to chome for the dev tools. That is what moved me over there. Firebug was great in it's day but at some point Chrome's dev tools just became too much better to make staying on Firefox possible.

I vaguely remember all of those things as separate phases. - Moving away from IE, I fell in love with Opera (lots of built-in features), most others with Firefox - Chrome comes in, it's Google, it's lightweight, people try it and like it - Chrome gets really fast, it appeals to even more people - Meanwhile, Firefox has enough extension power to replace Opera for me (who can live with the tabs BELOW address bar or wit…

> Microsoft is trying to drive people away from IE, hoping for Edge adoption.

Lolno, they gave up and are ditching Edge to use Chrome because Electron. https://9to5google.com/2018/12/03/microsoft-chrome-based-bro...

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