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Is Elon Musk trying to commit ‘suicide by SEC’ by taunting the agency?

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Re: Is Elon Musk trying to commit ‘suicide by SEC’ by taunting the agency?

#51

Post by motohagiography »

Musk paid the SEC $20m in his last settlement, what do they want, gratitude?

There is definitely a cabal gunning for him, what I don't understand is why. There are funds short TSLA who are talking their books as well, but he seems to have provoked a deeper coalition of interests that is hard to pinpoint. All I can tell is much of the criticism seems contrived.

Maybe he's truly checked out because this is all just a simulation, and he wants to test what is symbolic and artificial, and what is real because philosophically and existentially it's the only meaningful problem to address, but from an investor and mental health perspective, that's dissociation and if that's really the case, I hope he likes painting in watercolors.

Re: Is Elon Musk trying to commit ‘suicide by SEC’ by taunting the agency?

#52

Post by asdfasgasdgasdg »

dallashoxton wrote: post #43
ceejayoz wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's fairly minuscule, really. Short sellers can't make Musk bash the SEC or call people pedos; that's on him. Musk himself has $55.8B in compensation tied to market cap at stake, which gives him equally self-interested reasons to balance things out. https://www.cnbc.com/2018/03/21/tesla-shareholders-approve-e...

>Short sellers can't make Musk bash the SEC or call people pedos; that's on him. But they certainly can engineer a fake rumor of an SEC requesting contempt of court by manipulating journalists and forging documents, if sufficiently motivated. Consider the SuperMicro story submitted to mainstream publications last year that was obviously fake and caused a massive decline in their stock. I don't think it's above a soph…

So, let me get this straight. You think short sellers are a massive cabal of evil geniuses and they just go around forging court documents and duping journalists? But just in the case of TSLA, not all the other companies it would be possible to short? And you think that's more likely than that the SEC asked the judge to hold Musk in contempt, which he obviously is by a plain reading of the settlement agreement?

This is waayayayayayaaaayyyyy off the deep end. Please check your priors, they are busted.

Re: Is Elon Musk trying to commit ‘suicide by SEC’ by taunting the agency?

#53

Post by ceejayoz »

motohagiography wrote: post #51

Musk paid the SEC $20m in his last settlement, what do they want, gratitude? There is definitely a cabal gunning for him, what I don't understand is why. There are funds short TSLA who are talking their books as well, but he seems to have provoked a deeper coalition of interests that is hard to pinpoint. All I can tell is much of the criticism seems contrived. Maybe he's truly checked out because this is all just a s…

> Musk paid the SEC $20m in his last settlement, what do they want, gratitude?

They want him to follow the other terms of the settlement, presumably. The fine's only a part of the punishment.

Re: Is Elon Musk trying to commit ‘suicide by SEC’ by taunting the agency?

#54

Post by api »

Gibbon1 wrote: post #2

Knowing nothing but chatter on the internet I'd say Musk goes through manic episodes.

Would also explain his energy level. Manics can sometimes "use" their episodes to achieve hyperfocus, but as with synthetically induced mania (amphetamine) there are side effects.

Re: Is Elon Musk trying to commit ‘suicide by SEC’ by taunting the agency?

#55

Post by iamcreasy »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #4

I liked Matt Levine's analysis: > probably what will happen is that Musk will go to court and the judge will yell at him and he will say he’s sorry and then six minutes later he’ll tweet “my fingers were crossed and I am NOT sorry” and he’ll go on TV that night and be like “you know what I have contempt for? Court,” and everyone will just be like “ehhhhhhhhhh good enough.” ( https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles…

I've been following Elon for a very long time, and one of the reason I like him is that he sticks to what he says. So if today Elon says that he respects the justice dept, its very like that he really means it, and he will stick to it.

I would not trust Matt Levine on this.

Re: Is Elon Musk trying to commit ‘suicide by SEC’ by taunting the agency?

#56

Post by colordrops »

ceejayoz wrote: post #22
colordrops wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your comment is (currently) downvoted, but it's a perfectly reasonable suggestion considering plenty of evidence of entrenched interests doing everything they can to take down Musk, obviously including the massive short position against Tesla, and the oil industry writer for the NY Times intentionally driving in circles in a parking lot to cause the car to run out of battery: https://www.tesla.com/blog/most-peculiar-…

"There are powerful people who'd like to see Musk fail" and "Musk doesn't do himself any favors calling people pedos and whatnot" can both be true.

Enough with the strawman argument. I never suggested that both couldn't be true. That doesn't counter anything I said.

Re: Is Elon Musk trying to commit ‘suicide by SEC’ by taunting the agency?

#57

Post by whamlastxmas »

LiquidSky wrote: post #18
baby wrote: post #9

This sounds like a targeted campaign to discredit Musk. Careful about what you read.

Why this bizarre cultish paranoia? He's in this mess because he committed securities fraud. He got a slap-on-the wrist sweetheart deal and he can't even stick to that. He's done all of this to himself, and he can't seem to stop.

Because he's an innovator in multiple industries and generally seems like the type of person that would be admired on a site like HN and yet he constantly gets shit on for the smallest things.

Re: Is Elon Musk trying to commit ‘suicide by SEC’ by taunting the agency?

#58

Post by ordu »

LiquidSky wrote: post #21
jjoonathan wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many people haven't heard of Coca Cola? How much do they spend on advertising regardless? Brand awareness requires upkeep.

The old saw that any publicity is good publicity isn't true. Tesla being in the news because their leader is committing securities fraud and acting increasingly erratic isn't helping the brand anymore than Coca Cola being in the news for giving people food poisoning.

I wouldn't be so sure about it. We cannot speak in meaningful way whether Musk's kind of publicity is good or it is bad without considering his target audience first. Do we know some group of people who might cheer Musk's behaviour?

I can think about just one possibility linked with age, but found it unlikely: if average age of owners of S, 3 and X models was between 43 and 53 years[1], it would be unlikely to drop significally. Didn't Musk promised for next models to be cheaper (and more affordable for younger generations) than previous?

Though idea of Musk running campain targeting younger and rebellous generations seems implausible for me regardless of price.

[1] https://www.teslarati.com/survey-model-x-owners-income-doubl...

Re: Is Elon Musk trying to commit ‘suicide by SEC’ by taunting the agency?

#59

Post by thaumasiotes »

iamcreasy wrote: post #55
thaumasiotes wrote: post #4

I liked Matt Levine's analysis: > probably what will happen is that Musk will go to court and the judge will yell at him and he will say he’s sorry and then six minutes later he’ll tweet “my fingers were crossed and I am NOT sorry” and he’ll go on TV that night and be like “you know what I have contempt for? Court,” and everyone will just be like “ehhhhhhhhhh good enough.” ( https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles…

I've been following Elon for a very long time, and one of the reason I like him is that he sticks to what he says. So if today Elon says that he respects the justice dept, its very like that he really means it, and he will stick to it. I would not trust Matt Levine on this.

This... doesn't sound like you've been following him for a very long time.

Compare the prior incident -- I'll use a summary from Matt Levine again:

> Remember when Tesla Inc. Chief Executive Officer Elon Musk committed securities fraud by falsely claiming on Twitter that he had secured financing to take Tesla private? Remember how Musk and Tesla settled with the Securities and Exchange Commission by agreeing to pay fines and have Tesla lawyers review Musk’s tweets before he sent them out? Remember how Tesla hired a high-powered Washington litigator as its general counsel and Musk’s Twitter babysitter? Remember how Musk then said in a 60 Minutes interview that he and Tesla were absolutely not ever going to comply with the terms of the settlement that they had signed, that he does not respect the SEC, and that no lawyer would ever pre-clear his tweets?

But heck, let's see what CBS said about it. Most of this is just quotes from the interview:

> His warzone tweeting drew fire when out of the blue in August he tweeted, quote: "Am considering taking Tesla private at $420. Funding secured." The SEC disputed that claim and charged him with securities fraud. The case was settled with Musk agreeing that his "communications relating to the company… including… Twitter" would be overseen by his board.

> Lesley Stahl: Have you had any of your tweets censored since the settlement?

> Elon Musk: No.

> Lesley Stahl: None? Does someone have to read them before they go out?

> Elon Musk: No.

> Lesley Stahl: So your tweets are not supervised?

> Elon Musk: The only tweets that would have to be say reviewed would be if a tweet had a probability of causing a movement in the stock.

> Lesley Stahl: But how do they know if it's going to move the market if they're not reading all of them before you send them?

> Elon Musk: Well, I guess we might make some mistakes. Who knows?

> Lesley Stahl: Are you serious?

> Elon Musk: Nobody's perfect.

> Lesley Stahl: Look at you.

> Elon Musk: I want to be clear. I do not respect the SEC. I do not respect them.

( https://www.cbsnews.com/news/tesla-ceo-elon-musk-the-2018-60... )

So, he signed a binding legal agreement committing to have his tweets reviewed pre-publication, and immediately did a television interview in which the main messages were (1) that he wasn't complying with the settlement, (2) that he planned never to comply with the settlement, and (3) that he did not respect the SEC.

Truly, a man of his word.

Re: Is Elon Musk trying to commit ‘suicide by SEC’ by taunting the agency?

#60

Post by daveed »

dallashoxton wrote: post #43
ceejayoz wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's fairly minuscule, really. Short sellers can't make Musk bash the SEC or call people pedos; that's on him. Musk himself has $55.8B in compensation tied to market cap at stake, which gives him equally self-interested reasons to balance things out. https://www.cnbc.com/2018/03/21/tesla-shareholders-approve-e...

>Short sellers can't make Musk bash the SEC or call people pedos; that's on him. But they certainly can engineer a fake rumor of an SEC requesting contempt of court by manipulating journalists and forging documents, if sufficiently motivated. Consider the SuperMicro story submitted to mainstream publications last year that was obviously fake and caused a massive decline in their stock. I don't think it's above a soph…

So you also think that these short-sellers also made Elon respond to people on twitter, confirming the SEC action? https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1100215984713957376?s=08
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