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Taxing Uber and Lyft rides is L.A's latest plan to free up congested roads

latimes.com

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Re: Taxing Uber and Lyft rides is L.A's latest plan to free up congested roads

#121

Post by whalesalad »

nickles wrote: post #3

> Uber and Lyft “are using public roads, and the profit is going to their companies,” Phil Washington, Metro’s chief executive, said at a recent meeting. Public roads are supposed to be paid for through fuel taxes, which every Uber and Lyft driver pays. California has gasoline taxes of: * 55.22c per gallon (second only to Pennsylvania) * 18.4c per gallon (federal) * 2.25% sales tax Additionally, taxing only rideshari…

Not to mention Uber and Lyft drivers are wholly responsible for vehicle fees, maintenance, registration, their cellular data plans, wear and tear. California is out of control with it’s liberal tax policies. I spent the first twenty years of my life here and every time I return back I start to remember why I left.

Re: Taxing Uber and Lyft rides is L.A's latest plan to free up congested roads

#122

Post by gamblor956 »

SilasX wrote: post #51
clay_the_ripper wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. This sounds like a tax that will generate money for the govt and nothing else - it’s not like suddenly people are going to stop going places when the price goes up a tiny amount since there are no viable alternatives to driving in LA, either rideshare or private car.

Exactly. I could understand if the tax were tailored to the ostensible goals: - No Uber taxes outside of rush hour, since they're not contributing to congestion then. - Money is specially allocated to mass transit projects and subsidies for Uber pools/Lyft lines at rush hour where they are carrying multiple passengers. But of course, that's not the proposal, it's just another golden goose.

The money from this tax would be dedicated to mass transit projects.

It would be ridiculous to use the tax to subsidize Uber as they don't pay the tax, the riders do.

Re: Taxing Uber and Lyft rides is L.A's latest plan to free up congested roads

#123

Post by whalesalad »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #6
nickles wrote: post #3

> Uber and Lyft “are using public roads, and the profit is going to their companies,” Phil Washington, Metro’s chief executive, said at a recent meeting. Public roads are supposed to be paid for through fuel taxes, which every Uber and Lyft driver pays. California has gasoline taxes of: * 55.22c per gallon (second only to Pennsylvania) * 18.4c per gallon (federal) * 2.25% sales tax Additionally, taxing only rideshari…

Many Uber/Lyft/taxis cars are fuel sipping Toyota Priuses. Fuel taxes break down as fuel economies reach a certain point. Yes, it is not just Uber drivers using Priuses, but it is a substantial problem that has increased road usage without the same corresponding increases in fuel tax revenues. Of course electric presents even bigger problems that many states now have a surcharge on them during registration. It is obv…

Do you want EV adoption or fuel revenue? Choose one.

Re: Taxing Uber and Lyft rides is L.A's latest plan to free up congested roads

#124

Post by gamblor956 »

longerthoughts wrote: post #26
sbarre wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> since there are no viable alternatives to driving in LA, either rideshare or private car. The article seems to imply otherwise, that tons of money has been spent on improving public transit. Not agreeing with you or the article either way, just pointing that out.

Seems like the article is going out of its way to make public transit sound attractive with phrasing like "Metro’s sprawling bus network". Anecdotally, nobody I know in LA considers public transit as a realistic option and they routinely make jokes about how bad it is.

Anecdotally, everyone I know considers LA mass transit to be a viable option. This ranges from professionals like doctors and lawyers to the homeless.

I know a number of transplants from NYC, Chicago, and DC who ditched their cars after they moved to LA because it's possible to get everywhere worth going by Metro.

Re: Taxing Uber and Lyft rides is L.A's latest plan to free up congested roads

#126

Post by scarejunba »

emiliobumachar wrote: post #87
perl4ever wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have no idea what you are really trying to say. How do you define need? All my Lyft trips have either been to/from an auto mechanic or the airport. Is that "need"? In principle, I could have gotten friends to drive me, given enough incentive. Or I could have parked at the airport, or ridden the bus, or gone to a mechanic that made it convenient to wait for work to be done.

Gp is trying to say that nobody is really "sharing a ride" that they would be driving anyway, as in hitchhiking with compensation. It's virtually all professional drivers going where the client goes exclusively because the client goes there. Hence the term "ridesharing" is misleading. A very successful piece of clever viral marketing, or maybe a fossil of an early strategy. It's a semantic point, but a valid one. Wor…

We don’t call them taxis in California because in most California cities they’re different because of:

* no access to red lanes

* only app-based payment

* unique pickup/dropoff locations at airports and other such places

If we called them computer-dispatched taxi we’d confuse that with Flywheel-style stuff which can use red lanes, take cash, and use taxi locations. We could call them Taxi Type 2 but that’s super confusing.

“TNCs” is just an awful name so we use something that sounds intuitive “ridesharing”, since we know that pooling is possible on these services. It’s just a name. No one has proposed an alternative simple enough.

Re: Taxing Uber and Lyft rides is L.A's latest plan to free up congested roads

#127

Post by twblalock »

jayd16 wrote: post #62
SilasX wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How so? There was this reddit comment where someone listed all the ridiculous parking requirements they impose that torpedos apartment projects, regardless of how close to downtown or transit they are. [1] https://np.reddit.com/r/LosAngeles/comments/6lvwh4/im_an_arc...

Every bit of new construction seems to be mixed use commercial, retail, and housing with large underground parking structures. He's right that its "luxury" condos but its still a lot denser than the traditional two story apartment buildings.

Building luxury condos and apartments is fine. Rich people will live in them instead of outbidding poorer people for the older apartments.

People who oppose luxury apartment construction need to explain how they will prevent rich people from competing with poor people over existing housing and causing the prices to go up.

Re: Taxing Uber and Lyft rides is L.A's latest plan to free up congested roads

#128

Post by scarejunba »

floatrock wrote: post #117
iamwil wrote: post #107

Why not just tax single riders, if congestion is the issue?

From the article: > [San Francisco Supervisor Aaron] Peskin is drafting a measure for the November election that would levy a 3.25% fee on rides with one passenger, and a 1.5% fee on shared rides.

With all the nonsense going on, I’ve actually just got a car in SF. And that’s after 7 years car-free. Cycling is bloody impossible these days, and they got rid of the damned scooters too. Good job, Aaron. You’re a bloody genius.

My friends were all car-free too and only a fourth of them are still that way. No kids or anything. It’s just gotten kinda crappy here. I was hoping to hold out for just a little longer but I think I’m done.

Re: Taxing Uber and Lyft rides is L.A's latest plan to free up congested roads

#129

Post by gamblor956 »

integrate-this wrote: post #88

I'm a LA resident. People in this city like to talk about congestion as though they see it as a problem, but they don't actually see it as a problem. Only people in the valley see it as a problem because there are limited choke points into and out of LA proper which keep people from getting to work. LA's limited transportation infrastructure prevents DTLA's homeless from getting to Beverly Hills, Long Beach's gang-re…

LA is building a rail parallel to the 405, and the Silver Express (bus) has run down the 110 for more than a decade. LA is also building 2 more rail lines in the SFV. The reason they're not already built is that the SFV opposed these lines 3 decades ago when they were originally proposed and only recently dropped its opposition.

Also, Buses run from downtown to Beverly Hills, and getting from Long Beach to Brentwood can be done entirely by public transportation.

Re: Taxing Uber and Lyft rides is L.A's latest plan to free up congested roads

#130

Post by jacobolus »

mc32 wrote: post #57
SilasX wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's misleading -- yes, in the aggregate, gas taxes cover only part of the expenses, but that's not because of personal cars . Damage on the roads -- and thus maintenance costs -- scales with the 4th power of weight per axle. So the damage is virtually all from large trucks, with sedans and SUVs as a rounding error. If you were to apportion out the maintenance cost due to personal cars, they are overpaying.

Exactly this. Of course, if they tax per axle and tonnage combination, it’ll just be passed on to consumers anyhow as most of trucks are distributing goods which directly or indirectly end up in the hands of consumers. However, it would be quite fair to do, I think.

In the short term it would get passed on to consumers. In the medium term supply chains would figure out how to reduce shipping by road. In the longer term (in conjunction with other changes) we might be able to get larger-scale urban development on a more sustainable track.

If we could properly price externalities (not just road wear but also ground water contamination, CO2 emissions etc.) there are many parts of our economy which could be made dramatically more efficient and less harmful without that much overall change to human quality of life.

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