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EU Countries Back Copyright Reforms Aimed at Google, Facebook

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Re: EU Countries Back Copyright Reforms Aimed at Google, Facebook

#181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Not really. The legislature had to pass a law creating slavery, the executive had to sign it, the courts had to uphold it Um, no. They didn't have to do that under the system established by the US Constitution . Because slavery predated that system, and was protected by it. What would have taken positive action under the Constitution was abolishing slavery. But not only were there explicit protections for slavery i…

> Um, no. They didn't have to do that under the system established by the US Constitution . Because slavery predated that system, and was protected by it. Predating the constitution doesn't preclude violating it. Lese majeste laws predate the constitution but have been clearly unconstitutional since at least the Bill of Rights, arguably even before (since enacting them was not an enumerated power of the government).…

> He did

No he didn't; The Emancipation Proclamation did not abolish slavery.

> Because now you're talking about racism rather than slavery,

No, I'm talking about the distorted structures I listed that are features of the design of our political system that were placed in the Constitution to protect slavery. The ones that directly dealt with slavery were removed; the ones which were put in to tilt the balance of political power to resistance abolition were not, even after abolition, which is why our federal political system is still heavily tilted toward voters in less populated slates and still heavily rewards the remaining voters in states which effectively disenfranchise other citizens (though, to be fair, the last part was in theory directly addressed by provisions in the 14th Amendment directly calling for loss of representation for doing that, which would counteract that effect, but those provisions have never been enforced even against the most blatant systematic disenfranchisement, leaving the old imbalance fully in effect.)

Racism is a different problem (though one that frequently is involved in leveraging those systematic imbalances.)

Re: EU Countries Back Copyright Reforms Aimed at Google, Facebook

#182
post #43
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't frame this as a free speech issue. Freedom of speech is as protected in the EU as it is in the US, possibly more. Freedom of speech in Europe is not just an EU question, but also - and mainly - up to constitutions and legislation of the member states. So of course it varies. But there is less surveillance in Europe on what citizens say online, European media is less centralized than American, there are more par…

> Freedom of speech is as protected in the EU as it is in the US, possibly more It is absolutely not. That's a preposterous assumption. If it was the case then no European state could send people to prison or fine them for having an opinion, yet look at France, where insulting the president is a crime and denying "official" history has landed people in jail (I don't condone either of these, it's just about principle)…

The US has the "glorious" principle of explicitly allowing people to heckle a gay soldier's funeral.

That was a while ago, but it just goes to show that the US 1st amendment leads to equally preposterous scenarios.

> I don't condone either of these, it's just about principle

But being respectful to people at funerals is also a principle. By which I mean "it's about principle" is not at all a clear signal on whether something should be allowed even when not condoned.

Personally, over the years I've taken an interest in this, I've seen the US's extreme stance on freedom of speech hurt more often than I've seen the EU's more relaxed stance on freedom of speech hurt. But even then I suppose you could argue the principle of the thing, that the one time our "loose" freedom of speech does hurt in the EU, it's going to hurt disproportionally more. Except I'd argue against that, it's a risk that is always there and it's not strictly controlled by strict freedom of speech, that's just one symptom of things going south.

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