Bloomberg Healthiest Country Index – 2019 edition • Hacker News Board

Re: Bloomberg Healthiest Country Index – 2019 edition

#51

Post by lettergram » Tue, Feb 26, 2019, 1:26 PM UTC

JustSomeNobody wrote: post #37

lettergram wrote: post #27

There’s something wrong with the methodology here when Cuba is ranked higher than the US. People are starving in Cuba, with no health care...

People are starving in the U.S. of A. as well. And healthcare is nearly inaccessible to them. And what they can get, some law makers want to take away or make even harder to get.

You get free food in the US as well as Cuba if you are poor.

I literally just bought 20lbs of pork for $20 and 20lbs of rice and 10lbs of beans for another $20. You can beg and easily make more than $20 a day.

But even then the US gives out food coupons and there are tons of soup kitchens.

Re: Bloomberg Healthiest Country Index – 2019 edition

#52

Post by majewsky » Tue, Feb 26, 2019, 1:26 PM UTC

lettergram wrote: post #39

lultimouomo wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you assume the problem is with the methodology of the study? Cuba has a longer life expectancy than US. As a European, I'd say there's something wrong with US approach to health: people living under a dictatorship in a poor country have better health than Americans.

I’d love to see real stats on that. All I ever see is the statement that there’s this huge problem in the US. Yet, when I travel I see tons of people without teeth, starving in the street, etc. It’s anecdotal, but I cannot imagine these countries are equivalent. I’ve even seen the claim healthcare is super good outside the United stares. Although it costs more, the US had a top notch system for medical care. They can…

> They can see a doctor in minutes, get open heart surgery, and go home for See, that's one of the problems I have with the American system right there. Why do you have to pay for life-saving surgery when you already have insurance? That's absurd.

Re: Bloomberg Healthiest Country Index – 2019 edition

#53

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Feb 26, 2019, 1:28 PM UTC

lettergram wrote: post #39

lultimouomo wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you assume the problem is with the methodology of the study? Cuba has a longer life expectancy than US. As a European, I'd say there's something wrong with US approach to health: people living under a dictatorship in a poor country have better health than Americans.

I’d love to see real stats on that. All I ever see is the statement that there’s this huge problem in the US. Yet, when I travel I see tons of people without teeth, starving in the street, etc. It’s anecdotal, but I cannot imagine these countries are equivalent. I’ve even seen the claim healthcare is super good outside the United stares. Although it costs more, the US had a top notch system for medical care. They can…

[deleted]

Re: Bloomberg Healthiest Country Index – 2019 edition

#54

Post by ilikehurdles » Tue, Feb 26, 2019, 1:28 PM UTC

antr wrote: post #19

manuelflara wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed, the public healthcare system in Spain, while still great compared to most of the world, is a shadow of what it once was, with the rampant privatization done by the Government in the last decade. A really sad situation. That being said, decent private healthcare here is about 100€/month, so while private healthcare is still considered "a luxury" (because public one is pretty good), it's still very very far fro…

Rampant privatization? Spain's public healthcare expenditure[1] was: 38.552 €bn in 2002, and 66.678 €bn in 2016 (latest official year), this is a 73% increase in 14 years. On other hand while population was 41.31 m in 2002, and 46.48 m in 2016, A 13% increase. This is a 53% net increase in expenditure per capita. I'm curious to know what "rampant privatization" to you means, as government/public expenditure has by no…

The US has the highest healthcare expenditure and the most privatization. I think I’m seeing a pattern.

Re: Bloomberg Healthiest Country Index – 2019 edition

#55

Post by Illotus » Tue, Feb 26, 2019, 1:28 PM UTC

antr wrote: post #19

manuelflara wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed, the public healthcare system in Spain, while still great compared to most of the world, is a shadow of what it once was, with the rampant privatization done by the Government in the last decade. A really sad situation. That being said, decent private healthcare here is about 100€/month, so while private healthcare is still considered "a luxury" (because public one is pretty good), it's still very very far fro…

Rampant privatization? Spain's public healthcare expenditure[1] was: 38.552 €bn in 2002, and 66.678 €bn in 2016 (latest official year), this is a 73% increase in 14 years. On other hand while population was 41.31 m in 2002, and 46.48 m in 2016, A 13% increase. This is a 53% net increase in expenditure per capita. I'm curious to know what "rampant privatization" to you means, as government/public expenditure has by no…

Don't know about Spain, but in some countries privatization means basically that functions that used to be handled by government employees or such are now handled by private enterprises, however the money still comes from public expenditure. The idea is that private enterprises are so much more efficient than government that they can do the same job cheaper while making profit at the same time. Not many success stories for the public in those cases.

Re: Bloomberg Healthiest Country Index – 2019 edition

#56

Post by consz » Tue, Feb 26, 2019, 1:31 PM UTC

lettergram wrote: post #39

lultimouomo wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you assume the problem is with the methodology of the study? Cuba has a longer life expectancy than US. As a European, I'd say there's something wrong with US approach to health: people living under a dictatorship in a poor country have better health than Americans.

I’d love to see real stats on that. All I ever see is the statement that there’s this huge problem in the US. Yet, when I travel I see tons of people without teeth, starving in the street, etc. It’s anecdotal, but I cannot imagine these countries are equivalent. I’ve even seen the claim healthcare is super good outside the United stares. Although it costs more, the US had a top notch system for medical care. They can…

>The only requirement is insurance, which the vast majority of people have.

However, the vast majority of people do not have access to $8000.

Re: Bloomberg Healthiest Country Index – 2019 edition

#57

Post by ilikehurdles » Tue, Feb 26, 2019, 1:31 PM UTC

andrenth wrote: post #44

lbfkbsjcn73 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Out of interest i did a very rough calculation of what inflation-adjusted numbers might look like. I pulled 4% per year inflation out of my ear, and came up with: 38.552 €bn * 1.04^(2016-2002) => 66.76 €bn ..which is uncannily close to your numbers. Inflation probably wasn't exactly 4% YoY, but if it is, then in real Euros, the expenditure per population has decreased .

The average inflation was closer to 2% according to https://www.inflation.eu/inflation-rates/spain/historic-infl...

That plus a roughly 12% growth in population over that range.

Re: Bloomberg Healthiest Country Index – 2019 edition

#58

Post by antr » Tue, Feb 26, 2019, 1:32 PM UTC

RobertoG wrote: post #38

antr wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. the numbers are government healthcare expenditure, not private healthcare expenditure 2. CPI won't change a the bottom line take-away. Feel free to run the numbers.

So, you don't take into account inflation, not GDP per capita grow, not population ageing, but the take-away should be the same.

There is an argument made towards "rampant privatisation", i.e. a transfer of a business from public to private control. However, data shows that government expenditure has increased above CPI, the driver of prices (not an output like "GDP per capita", which for some reason you refer too as an economic driver of sorts). I cannot observe, from official data the I link to, a slow down in public healthcare investment by the Spanish government, and definitely not an increase in expenses due to the Government paying private healthcare players. Feel free to dive into the data and indicate otherwise. I'm not here for armchair politics.

Re: Bloomberg Healthiest Country Index – 2019 edition

#59

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Feb 26, 2019, 1:33 PM UTC

RobertoG wrote: post #38

antr wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. the numbers are government healthcare expenditure, not private healthcare expenditure 2. CPI won't change a the bottom line take-away. Feel free to run the numbers.

So, you don't take into account inflation, not GDP per capita grow, not population ageing, but the take-away should be the same.

[deleted]

Re: Bloomberg Healthiest Country Index – 2019 edition

#60

Post by lettergram » Tue, Feb 26, 2019, 1:33 PM UTC

majewsky wrote: post #52

lettergram wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’d love to see real stats on that. All I ever see is the statement that there’s this huge problem in the US. Yet, when I travel I see tons of people without teeth, starving in the street, etc. It’s anecdotal, but I cannot imagine these countries are equivalent. I’ve even seen the claim healthcare is super good outside the United stares. Although it costs more, the US had a top notch system for medical care. They can…

> They can see a doctor in minutes, get open heart surgery, and go home for See, that's one of the problems I have with the American system right there. Why do you have to pay for life-saving surgery when you already have insurance? That's absurd.

It’s called a co-pay and it’s because you’re expected to pay a portion along with all treatment. This is to make sure you aren’t going when you don’t need it.

$8000 for lift saving treatment is nothing really. I can go to the doctor for $20 - $40. However, if I need open heart surgery, $8k is fair.

In Ireland, Canada, etc you have to wait months to get treatment. People die on the list to get treatment. That’s my issue with that setup. I agree the US healthcare can be improved. However, don’t let the propaganda fool you (that’s for political campaigns), it’s expensive and we all want to fix that, but it’s very effective.