Running a Bakery on Emacs and PostgreSQL
bofh.org.uk
Running a Bakery on Emacs and PostgreSQL
1–10 of 194 posts
Re: Running a Bakery on Emacs and PostgreSQL
#2This is pretty cool to see. I frequently about how much most businesses could do if they just has a database to back there core business operations.
Re: Running a Bakery on Emacs and PostgreSQL
#3It's a pity that I read the title first, because when I read the recursive descriptions I immediately thought about a Makefile that emitted directions, cumulative timing, and optional ingredient debit entries for an ordering system.
But SQL is OK.
Re: Running a Bakery on Emacs and PostgreSQL
#4> The key insight is that a bakery formula is so cliched that it can be represented as data. Here’s the formula for seedy malt loaves:
> Of course, that’s not the full set of formulae, because it doesn’t tell you how to make ‘Seedy malt dough’, but that’s just another formula, which consists of flour, water, starter, salt and a multiseed ‘soaker’, where the starter and the soaker are the results of other formulae, which are (finally) made from basic ingredients1. I did consider reaching for the object oriented hammer at this point, but thought that I might be able to do everything I needed without leaving SQL.
There's no way you can do something similar with spreadsheets? The example wasn't in enough detail for me to understand why not. The jump from spreadsheet to SQL seems massive in terms of ease of use.
Re: Running a Bakery on Emacs and PostgreSQL
#5> The key insight is that a bakery formula is so cliched that it can be represented as data. Here’s the formula for seedy malt loaves: > Of course, that’s not the full set of formulae, because it doesn’t tell you how to make ‘Seedy malt dough’, but that’s just another formula, which consists of flour, water, starter, salt and a multiseed ‘soaker’, where the starter and the soaker are the results of other formulae, wh…
Especially since org-mode has a built-in spreadsheet system that supports formulas written in emacs calc or even arbitrary elisp: https://orgmode.org/worg/org-tutorials/org-spreadsheet-intro...
Re: Running a Bakery on Emacs and PostgreSQL
#6> The key insight is that a bakery formula is so cliched that it can be represented as data. Here’s the formula for seedy malt loaves: > Of course, that’s not the full set of formulae, because it doesn’t tell you how to make ‘Seedy malt dough’, but that’s just another formula, which consists of flour, water, starter, salt and a multiseed ‘soaker’, where the starter and the soaker are the results of other formulae, wh…
"There's no way you can do something similar with spreadsheets?"
You can, but the author is using tools that are more familiar to him, and hence more productive for him.
Just like when doing some quick and dirty analysis, some people will reach for Excel, some for R, some for Pandas. None of those people is wrong.
Some people go too far the other way: spend too much time learning new tools, and not enough creating things of value.
Re: Running a Bakery on Emacs and PostgreSQL
#7> The key insight is that a bakery formula is so cliched that it can be represented as data. Here’s the formula for seedy malt loaves: > Of course, that’s not the full set of formulae, because it doesn’t tell you how to make ‘Seedy malt dough’, but that’s just another formula, which consists of flour, water, starter, salt and a multiseed ‘soaker’, where the starter and the soaker are the results of other formulae, wh…
"There's no way you can do something similar with spreadsheets?" You can, but the author is using tools that are more familiar to him, and hence more productive for him. Just like when doing some quick and dirty analysis, some people will reach for Excel, some for R, some for Pandas. None of those people is wrong. Some people go too far the other way: spend too much time learning new tools, and not enough creating th…
There is a downside to this though .. For this bakery, if you hire someone, theres a reasonable chance they can use a spreadsheet (maybe not add new recipes etc, but use..). I'd bet is very unlikely the same will be true of SQL and emacs.
In tech/development, it's akin to someone building a system in some obscure language, because they are most productive and the only ones developing it today.. It's likely that system will end up being entirely replaced if the team maintaining it grows.
(To be clear, I'm not saying the Bakery made a bad choice, or what using obscure languages is a bad choice, or that optimising for immediate productivity through familiar - to you - tools is bad.. just that there is lots to think about when building a new system..)
Re: Running a Bakery on Emacs and PostgreSQL
#8> The key insight is that a bakery formula is so cliched that it can be represented as data. Here’s the formula for seedy malt loaves: > Of course, that’s not the full set of formulae, because it doesn’t tell you how to make ‘Seedy malt dough’, but that’s just another formula, which consists of flour, water, starter, salt and a multiseed ‘soaker’, where the starter and the soaker are the results of other formulae, wh…
"There's no way you can do something similar with spreadsheets?" You can, but the author is using tools that are more familiar to him, and hence more productive for him. Just like when doing some quick and dirty analysis, some people will reach for Excel, some for R, some for Pandas. None of those people is wrong. Some people go too far the other way: spend too much time learning new tools, and not enough creating th…
I'm not saying it's the wrong approach, I'm saying I don't understand what the problem is. The initial example to motivate moving from a spreadsheet to SQL is only this:
recipe ingredient quantity
Small Seedy Malt Seedy malt dough .61 kg
Large Seedy Malt Seedy malt dough .92 kg
Re: Running a Bakery on Emacs and PostgreSQL
#9Earlier quoted context omitted.
"There's no way you can do something similar with spreadsheets?" You can, but the author is using tools that are more familiar to him, and hence more productive for him. Just like when doing some quick and dirty analysis, some people will reach for Excel, some for R, some for Pandas. None of those people is wrong. Some people go too far the other way: spend too much time learning new tools, and not enough creating th…
There is a downside to this though .. For this bakery, if you hire someone, theres a reasonable chance they can use a spreadsheet (maybe not add new recipes etc, but use..). I'd bet is very unlikely the same will be true of SQL and emacs. In tech/development, it's akin to someone building a system in some obscure language, because they are most productive and the only ones developing it today.. It's likely that syste…
This is a very important point.
Choose tools that are: (1) right for the project (2) right for the current team (3) right for the future team
(3) might be hard given you don't know who joins later, and the engineers might also not have a say if they're not involved in hiring. But you can generally make decent guesses. The odds of the next baker you higher knowing SQL and emacs? Pretty low... the odds they know Excel? Probably higher.
With that said, this was still fun. I enjoy seeing technology used in interesting ways, even if I don't think it's necessarily the most sustainable way to do something.
Re: Running a Bakery on Emacs and PostgreSQL
#10This makes me wonder what someone with less computer experience would do, ie if you're not a former computer professional.
Sure, open source makes everything rather accessible from a monetary point of view, but you still have to learn things. I almost feel like in the past there were more attempts at making this accessible to the end user, HyperCard, dbase etc, even just BASIC on your 8-bit machine.
Nowadays? Excel/Google Sheets for the most simple case, probably, but if you have to transfer data from/into there or present it differently? Web sites and GUIs aren't that easy, but it's what the users know.
If your point of interaction with a computer is more bare-bones (eg a BASIC/DOS prompt), solutions feel closer, easier to grasp.